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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2019 18:15:27 GMT
Played against primal terrors yesterday for the first time in a very long while. I played Krueger 2 in DH (battle report will probably come during the week) and GOD DAMN IT the gellmouths were annoying. I was super clever and preyed one with B&C, and i could charge it on turn 2 by TKing Caul, but checking the math Caul with 3 corpses doesnt kill the maw! My blood pack couldnt even help in theory at dice minus 6 rolling one die.
It totally messed up my entire game plan. Thinking back, i think that if Brighid gets to attack as well (i assumed she had to run), but other than that it was basically trampling up a stalker (he was behind a forest) and then probably lose the stalker.
What do you guys do to handle this?
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Post by paradox on Jan 15, 2019 18:40:56 GMT
Played against primal terrors yesterday for the first time in a very long while. I played Krueger 2 in DH (battle report will probably come during the week) and GOD DAMN IT the gellmouths were annoying. I was super clever and preyed one with B&C, and i could charge it on turn 2 by TKing Caul, but checking the math Caul with 3 corpses doesnt kill the maw! My blood pack couldnt even help in theory at dice minus 6 rolling one die. It totally messed up my entire game plan. Thinking back, i think that if Brighid gets to attack as well (i assumed she had to run), but other than that it was basically trampling up a stalker (he was behind a forest) and then probably lose the stalker. What do you guys do to handle this? You definitely need a plan for hellmouths. If you dont really have one, you will probably want to flip the table. That said, they are not terrible if you have a plan. My last game vs hellmouths was with Menoth. So I just had the idrians Prey one and walk up to shoot it. Done. To that end, terrain providing, I think higher POW or boostable shooting are the best answers. If youre in an all-melee list, things can get alot harder. Or if the Legion player can exploit terrain to hide the maw effectively. A pureblood is not a bad take. Boosting damage on the spray will do about half the maws damage on average. Then its fairly easy to pick off with, say, a WRC or LotF on average dice. Alternatively, bloodtrackers with Prey can advance and throw, or possibly charge tentacles and quickwork shots in. Depending on placement, Ambushing bloodweavers can also get at the maw, or force tentacles away from the fight. The hardest part I find is player skill and terrain, though. A skillfull player with favorable terrain can put a maw in a tough spot, and you just need to plan around it in some cases.
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Post by norka19 on Jan 15, 2019 20:10:03 GMT
Why would you have lost your stalker doing that? With 2 reach and 6 inch sprint he probably could be behind the Forrest after killing it. Hellmouth don’t like being smacked twice by a pow 19
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Post by streetpizza on Jan 15, 2019 20:34:02 GMT
Also remember that he can only put one tentacle into play each turn. You can control what the hellmouth can do on your approach by gunning down as many of the tentacles as possible and then body blocking the pulls with shifting stones or other hard to remove models.
Just don't give anything away for free.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2019 22:01:16 GMT
Why would you have lost your stalker doing that? With 2 reach and 6 inch sprint he probably could be behind the Forrest after killing it. Hellmouth don’t like being smacked twice by a pow 19 Two pow 19s rolling one die for damage does not kill a hellmouth on arm 20. And that if Thagrosh is far enough back so the stalker isnt pow 17 instead.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2019 22:04:28 GMT
Also remember that he can only put one tentacle into play each turn. You can control what the hellmouth can do on your approach by gunning down as many of the tentacles as possible and then body blocking the pulls with shifting stones or other hard to remove models. Just don't give anything away for free. Thats the annoying thing. I cleared off the tentacles super easy and nithing got pulled, but it still messed up what could have been a scenario win. It felt like i had really good tools to handle the hellmouth, but it turned out i just couldnt kill the damned thing, and it saved him on scenario big time.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2019 22:09:42 GMT
Played against primal terrors yesterday for the first time in a very long while. I played Krueger 2 in DH (battle report will probably come during the week) and GOD DAMN IT the gellmouths were annoying. I was super clever and preyed one with B&C, and i could charge it on turn 2 by TKing Caul, but checking the math Caul with 3 corpses doesnt kill the maw! My blood pack couldnt even help in theory at dice minus 6 rolling one die. It totally messed up my entire game plan. Thinking back, i think that if Brighid gets to attack as well (i assumed she had to run), but other than that it was basically trampling up a stalker (he was behind a forest) and then probably lose the stalker. What do you guys do to handle this? You definitely need a plan for hellmouths. If you dont really have one, you will probably want to flip the table. That said, they are not terrible if you have a plan. My last game vs hellmouths was with Menoth. So I just had the idrians Prey one and walk up to shoot it. Done. To that end, terrain providing, I think higher POW or boostable shooting are the best answers. If youre in an all-melee list, things can get alot harder. Or if the Legion player can exploit terrain to hide the maw effectively. A pureblood is not a bad take. Boosting damage on the spray will do about half the maws damage on average. Then its fairly easy to pick off with, say, a WRC or LotF on average dice. Alternatively, bloodtrackers with Prey can advance and throw, or possibly charge tentacles and quickwork shots in. Depending on placement, Ambushing bloodweavers can also get at the maw, or force tentacles away from the fight. The hardest part I find is player skill and terrain, though. A skillfull player with favorable terrain can put a maw in a tough spot, and you just need to plan around it in some cases. I think you might be forgetting the +2 ARM from the BB. Bloodtrackes with prey are dice minus 9 on two dice damage. The pureblood is dice minus 6 on two dice. LotF is dice minus 4 and one dice minus 6 on two dice. The damned thing just never dies! If i charge it with ravagers it takes the whole unit to reliably kill it and that is if they do not enter Thagrosh aura
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Post by paradox on Jan 16, 2019 0:53:47 GMT
You definitely need a plan for hellmouths. If you dont really have one, you will probably want to flip the table. That said, they are not terrible if you have a plan. My last game vs hellmouths was with Menoth. So I just had the idrians Prey one and walk up to shoot it. Done. To that end, terrain providing, I think higher POW or boostable shooting are the best answers. If youre in an all-melee list, things can get alot harder. Or if the Legion player can exploit terrain to hide the maw effectively. A pureblood is not a bad take. Boosting damage on the spray will do about half the maws damage on average. Then its fairly easy to pick off with, say, a WRC or LotF on average dice. Alternatively, bloodtrackers with Prey can advance and throw, or possibly charge tentacles and quickwork shots in. Depending on placement, Ambushing bloodweavers can also get at the maw, or force tentacles away from the fight. The hardest part I find is player skill and terrain, though. A skillfull player with favorable terrain can put a maw in a tough spot, and you just need to plan around it in some cases. I think you might be forgetting the +2 ARM from the BB. Bloodtrackes with prey are dice minus 9 on two dice damage. The pureblood is dice minus 6 on two dice. LotF is dice minus 4 and one dice minus 6 on two dice. The damned thing just never dies! If i charge it with ravagers it takes the whole unit to reliably kill it and that is if they do not enter Thagrosh aura List and placement do matter, of course. The list I faced last had no BB. Body blocking, as suggested, helps if you need to chip it over a couple turns. Putting attacks into tentacles can help too, if you can spare them, as also suggested. One option is auto-damage effects, or Grievous Wounds effects to allow you to accumulate chip damage. So Alten could be an option, for example. Failing that, a disposable light might also do. Put this way, what was your full list? Krueger2 should be able to tag Rebuke into the unit, then trim tentacles too. The rest depends on the list. And of course on table and opponent.
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2019 10:17:59 GMT
paradoxCircle Orboros - DH with well Theme: The Devourer's Host 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Krueger the Stormlord - WB: +27 - Tharn Blood Shaman - PC: 4 - Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10) Tharn Wolf Rider Champion - PC: 0 Tharn Wolf Rider Champion - PC: 0 Tharn Ravager White Mane - PC: 5 Gallows Grove - PC: 2 Tharn Ravagers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 15 - Tharn Ravager Chieftain - PC: 0 Tharn Blood Pack - Leader & 5 Grunts: 15 Tharn Blood Pack - Leader & 5 Grunts: 15 Brighid & Caul - Brighid & Caul: 7 Well of Orboros (CID): 10 I easily killed all tentacles, and blocking drags were no problem. Rebuke does not really matter as he can just place the spawning tentacles where he needs them. My problem was that i needed the maw to die to score
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Post by paradox on Jan 16, 2019 13:13:17 GMT
Could you have counter-deployed the Well to shoot it? Seems like the best use/investment. Maybe finish with a WRC once wounded.
Rebuke is handy in stopping tentacles trying to to do work without dragging.
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Post by norka19 on Jan 16, 2019 13:25:48 GMT
Why would you have lost your stalker doing that? With 2 reach and 6 inch sprint he probably could be behind the Forrest after killing it. Hellmouth don’t like being smacked twice by a pow 19 Two pow 19s rolling one die for damage does not kill a hellmouth on arm 20. And that if Thagrosh is far enough back so the stalker isnt pow 17 instead. I’m trying to figure out your board state where hellmouths are both threatening your models but thagrosh is also already 10 inches from your stalker...
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Post by streetpizza on Jan 16, 2019 14:42:03 GMT
Also remember that he can only put one tentacle into play each turn. You can control what the hellmouth can do on your approach by gunning down as many of the tentacles as possible and then body blocking the pulls with shifting stones or other hard to remove models. Just don't give anything away for free. Thats the annoying thing. I cleared off the tentacles super easy and nithing got pulled, but it still messed up what could have been a scenario win. It felt like i had really good tools to handle the hellmouth, but it turned out i just couldnt kill the damned thing, and it saved him on scenario big time. Soooooo ... now you know what fighting against sentry stones feels like
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2019 16:26:34 GMT
Two pow 19s rolling one die for damage does not kill a hellmouth on arm 20. And that if Thagrosh is far enough back so the stalker isnt pow 17 instead. I’m trying to figure out your board state where hellmouths are both threatening your models but thagrosh is also already 10 inches from your stalker... Ill try and write a bat rep with pics, but dont have the time atm. Thagrosh would only be within 10 of the stalker if i send in the stalker ofc
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Post by Trollock on Jan 16, 2019 16:30:52 GMT
Could you have counter-deployed the Well to shoot it? Seems like the best use/investment. Maybe finish with a WRC once wounded. Rebuke is handy in stopping tentacles trying to to do work without dragging. The well couldnt see it because of a forest, and its still Rolling dice minus 6 on two dice, so it will take a while hehe. We did play the interaction between circular vision and backstab wrong though. We played it as if backstab didnt work, but it should, so then you get some damage in, but its still dice minus 11 on three dice and dice minys 8 on two, so... Not killing it in all likelyhood
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Post by paradox on Jan 16, 2019 17:43:15 GMT
Could you have counter-deployed the Well to shoot it? Seems like the best use/investment. Maybe finish with a WRC once wounded. Rebuke is handy in stopping tentacles trying to to do work without dragging. The well couldnt see it because of a forest, and its still Rolling dice minus 6 on two dice, so it will take a while hehe. We did play the interaction between circular vision and backstab wrong though. We played it as if backstab didnt work, but it should, so then you get some damage in, but its still dice minus 11 on three dice and dice minys 8 on two, so... Not killing it in all likelyhood Terrain is a tough case. Not much to be done anout that. Prey with B&C and using Brighids bow plus WRC, and controlling tentacles, would help you work it down over a few turns.
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