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Post by dickovdk on Jan 13, 2019 19:45:22 GMT
Hiya
like anyone else I guess I am constantly annoying the hell out of people I know with builds and seeking advise from god knows who. I seem to recall that the old PP forum had a specific subfolder for Builds. Is similar like that still around somewhere?
Recently I got my second unit Long Riders and that (along with Jadens) sparked a new interest for Madrak2 in Band
I am therefore toying around mentally with two different things consisting of
Alternate 1: Madrak2 - Runebearer - Dire Troll Mauler - Earthborn Dire Troll 2x Fell Caller Hero Stone Scribe Chronicler Horthol 2x Long Riders (Max) Stonebearer + UA (Min) Warders
Alternate 2: Madrak2 - Runebearer - Dire Troll Mauler - Dire Troll Brawler 2x Fell Caller Hero Stone Scribe Chronicler Horthol 2x Long Riders (Min) Stonebearer + UA Sons of Bragg
Of course pros on both : Alternate 1 : have shield guard to stop Lord of the Cheat (and the likes), Better range Aura which is nice for Long Riders, Earthborns are harder to kill and got a superb Animus Alternate 2 : have a unit that hit harder and a Reach harder hitting beasts which can use the Feat better and easier set up bonus from Stone Scribe Chronicler.
btw quick note regarding using warders - they put the unit over 60 points so effectively I get a free solo and three Shield Guards for 10 points, which is pretty good.
What do you think?
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Jan 15, 2019 9:25:40 GMT
NP. There is no builds subforum. Many believe that it will not work and none will look at it. So keep bothering The first build. if your only units are 2 times LR's then you can reduce the stone to min. They will outpace your stone on turn 2, at least that is my experience. Same goes for the fell callers. It is hard keeping them in range of the LR's Also It is my opinion that M2 likes more infantry. That said. This is a build I have played a couple times with some succes and loads of fun. Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Madrak 2] Madrak Ironhide, World Ender [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber / Rok - Troll Bouncer [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress / Mist speaker [4] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Trollkin Long Riders (min) [12] Trollkin Long Riders (min) [12] You can swap out lanyssa for mist speaker in case you need magical stuff Rok of Bomber as per your taste. All inf hit hard with blood fury, so you can choose speed over str. You can even choose the regular elder. bears: 1x pow 20 2x pow 19 with str option of the stone. Not counting blood fury. With 2 units of bears you will take out a colossal (about 75-80 % chance)
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Post by Trollock on Jan 15, 2019 10:46:11 GMT
I LOVE bears with Madrak 2, not because they hit hard and are awesome in general (though they are) but because they force the opponent to cram all their models in the middle of the table. Madrak 2 REALLY loves that for his feat.
That being said, ignoring tough from BoH is also a huge benefit for the feat.
Warders are a pure match up fixer imo. They allow you to play a game if you accidentally drop the wrong list and they have more guns than you bargained for, but neither of your lists really wants to see any serious guns. Using them to stop LotF is probably not super relevant. You can probably protect the stone by double shield guarding, but it requires you to space your models very strangely i think, or keep the stone back very far. Playing a Bomber and a mist speaker in the list might be more effective...
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Jan 15, 2019 16:56:34 GMT
Well boh is great, but that is reserved for my kolgrima list
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Post by dickovdk on Jan 15, 2019 22:51:11 GMT
Well boh is great, but that is reserved for my kolgrima list Actually having read the replies it made me think a bit Long riders + bears seem cute - I really like that idea but that would be in Storm. originally my second list (or first what ever) would be Jarl in Storm. But I really want to have Band in there somewhere - and I dont want to use madrak1/kolgrimma. but if I go Storm with Madrak2 - Moses - Rök - Axer Horthol Valka Min Stone + NK Elder 2x Long Riders 2x Bears then I was thinking what would I pair that with - again that list do not like to see gunlines - but Jarl do not want to be in Band (upkeep issues) and since I dont want madrak1 and Kolgrimma. Then it becomes pretty hard to work out an usable second list.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Feb 17, 2019 4:46:38 GMT
Longriders are sooo slow, without Jarl, sadly. I haven't found a situation where they get the alpha drop on any significant amount of opposing competitive player's models, even with NK Elder's +1 SPD. 4pts per my lost model is typical and bad, and they NEVER make up their points in kills. Auto-smite (or heck even crit-Smite) on their axe would be better than the neutered Bull Rush of MK3. Maybe I'm being harsh on 'em, because memories of glory, is it only me?
Fennblades are 1" slower than LRs, but really are effectively at least 4" faster, with Vengeance and No Quarter. AND can get more clear attack lanes and attacks acquired by virtue of smaller bases and No Quarter Pathfinder. (Be sure to protect the Officer(s)for MAT 9 (War Cry) Madrak2 Feat turn!) Lastly, after the charge, Fenns hit with the exact same P+S as LRs (total BS in my opinion, LR's are lacking), so Madrak2's Feat works equally well for both.
My current Madrak2 play-test army: Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes
[Madrak 2] Madrak Ironhide, World Ender [+28] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] (try to sneak forward to disrupt enemy upkeep(s), puppet master Brawler on Feat turn) Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2] (cheap unit and LOS blocker) Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] (give the odd Warder out his +2 ARM!)
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Post by dickovdk on Feb 17, 2019 7:53:11 GMT
While I do not disagree with you regarding fenns vs LRs - the main difference as I feel is Fenns are def12 arm14 1 wound - LR while fewer are def12 arm18 8 wounds. Why this matter is basically because Maddy2 weakness (ranged game) is further exposed with fenns as they die to ... well a fart from the table next to you really. I understand that having 24 bodies also helps vs 10 for LR but I have yet to see the fenns survive in a mass large enought getting over the table.
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Post by Trollock on Feb 17, 2019 10:56:07 GMT
Claiming that SPD 7 and 2" reach is "sooo slow" seems unreasonable to me. I play with and against a LOT of things slower than that. Like every ones favorite, tharn ravagers.
And if you claim that ravagers always have vengeance, id suggest that you stop shooting them before you can totally cripple them. Vengeance is more of an anti shooting rule than a threat range extension.
Long riders have a 12" threat (at least) and that is thr magic number as it means they can threaten an entire zone.
All that being Said, fennblades are nifty too. Im not poopooing them, just cheering for the long riders. I might sound like a broken record, but they are really fun with Horgle 2, as they can then play sort of like old school mk2 warders where they just wont die. ARM 22 with 8 boxes and tough with no knockdown on top is a serious thing! 🤣
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snoozer
Junior Strategist
Posts: 467
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Post by snoozer on Feb 17, 2019 21:07:34 GMT
I like the idea of a Build Discussion thread! What are your ideas for SoTN? I know that kolgrimma / maybe double bear double fire eater and Champs is kind of the standard. Has SoTN aged beyond that tough? (I ordered bears but I do not want to buy "all in" yet
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Post by emb on Feb 17, 2019 22:43:51 GMT
conflictchamber.com/?c7201b_-0a7e0riRj66G0l0miTbK0b0c6mTrollbloods Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes [Grissel 2] Grissel Bloodsong, Marshal of the Kriels [+27] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Earthborn Dire Troll [14] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [0(5)] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [0(5)] Trollkin Long Riders (max) [20] I 1-listed this at LVO (my pairing was actually going to be an eMadrak double LR list, but I never managed to meet up with the guy I was borrowing the second unit from). It's true that the Long Riders never really kill anything, but the fact that they can slam, follow-up, and then sit there jammed in at ARM22 under Grissel's feat means that they never really die, either. The Fennblades perform pretty well, but I'd replace them before I replaced the Long Riders. (Come to think of it, I already have, since I'm converting the list to SotN...where Long Riders will be SPD9 between Dash and Wild Winds) I feel the same way about Long Riders for eMadrak, the Fennblades do serious work with him, but between the extra 1 MAT, slams+followup, and 50mm bases, I think the Long Riders are better.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Feb 18, 2019 12:19:08 GMT
Longriders are sooo slow, without Jarl, sadly. I haven't found a situation where they get the alpha drop on any significant amount of opposing competitive player's models, even with NK Elder's +1 SPD. 4pts per my lost model is typical and bad, and they NEVER make up their points in kills. Auto-smite (or heck even crit-Smite) on their axe would be better than the neutered Bull Rush of MK3. Maybe I'm being harsh on 'em, because memories of glory, is it only me? Fennblades are 1" slower than LRs, but really are effectively at least 4" faster, with Vengeance and No Quarter. AND can get more clear attack lanes and attacks acquired by virtue of smaller bases and No Quarter Pathfinder. (Be sure to protect the Officer(s)for MAT 9 (War Cry) Madrak2 Feat turn!) Lastly, after the charge, Fenns hit with the exact same P+S as LRs (total BS in my opinion, LR's are lacking), so Madrak2's Feat works equally well for both. My current Madrak2 play-test army: Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Band of Heroes [Madrak 2] Madrak Ironhide, World Ender [+28] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] (try to sneak forward to disrupt enemy upkeep(s), puppet master Brawler on Feat turn) Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Stone Scribe Elder [3] Swamp Gobber Bellows Crew [2] (cheap unit and LOS blocker) Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15] - Trollkin Fennblade Officer & Drummer [5] Trollkin Warders (min) [10] - Trollkin Sorcerer (1) [3] (give the odd Warder out his +2 ARM!) One of the reasons I use them in kolgrima list. The cloudwall helps in getting the Alfa.
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Post by allinontrolls on Feb 19, 2019 6:18:10 GMT
I am really a big fan of a min unit long riders in boh. Take down really helps to not struggle with impacts. They are great as a small independent unit to contest a zone u do not want to contribute much.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Feb 19, 2019 7:49:30 GMT
I am really a big fan of a min unit long riders in boh. Take down really helps to not struggle with impacts. They are great as a small independent unit to contest a zone u do not want to contribute much. I totally agree. I use 2 min units in my kolgrima list and the do wonders in cleaning up infantry. Takedown combined with cursed fate is fun on the dance floor
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Post by dickovdk on Feb 25, 2019 8:55:45 GMT
I have pretty much settled on my lists EXCEPT Madrak2 battlegroup - so looking for advice on that
My list have 33 points (incl battlegroup pts)
we all know that Madrak2 likes Reach2 Beasts (Brawler, Impaler, Axer, Ice, Bouncer og Basher) He provide Warpath which help a bit on movement but alls all he does for his battlegroup which leads me to considering what animi is useful. on top of my head - what helps Madrak2 Earth blessing (EBDT, BOUNCER) Far Strike (BOMBER, IMPALER) Flaming Fist (PYRE) more of a long shot Recoil (ICE) Swarm (SWAMP)
Issue with all these beasts is they need Mauler's rage to be effective in Melee so Mauler is almost a given in the battlegroup - moving the available points from 33 to 18 - and there goes Bomber. So what now - my strange throughs point toward Mauler, Bouncer, Ice. It provide Ranged presence, Shield Guard, 2x reach2 beasts and 2 animi that might be useful. With Mauler around those 2 lights caps at ps 16&17 which is doable for a light.
What do you people think?
For the record the list is Theme : BoH Madrak2 - Runebearer Battlegroup 2x Fell Caller Heros Horthol 2x Long Riders Min Warder Full Stone + Normal Elder
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Post by allinontrolls on Feb 25, 2019 17:51:06 GMT
I would think about swapping min warders and something else for fennblades as jaming unit. They are fast and could jam the opponent and riders finish the Job.
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