Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 6, 2019 16:06:39 GMT
Could this actually work? Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Ghost Fleet [Deneghra 2] Wraith Witch Deneghra [+28] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Slayer [10] Captain Rengrave [0(5)] Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (2) [4] Wraith Engine [15] Wraith Engine [15] I doubt it. If they have a Ravager Shaman they just have magic weapons on demand so incorp won’t save you. I’m pretty sure Wurmwood gets one good Hellmouth Turn and that list just folds. If they’re on Morvahna1 you pretty much auto lose between the RFP from her Feat & Eruption of Life. She’ll trivially snipe out the Leaders & Turn your recursion off, Lord of the Feast will one round a Wraith Engine with his magic sword, & if she has a Shaman, she’ll kill the other with Ravagers pretty easily.
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Post by josephkerr on Mar 7, 2019 2:53:21 GMT
Could this actually work? Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Ghost Fleet [Deneghra 2] Wraith Witch Deneghra [+28] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Slayer [10] Captain Rengrave [0(5)] Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (2) [4] Wraith Engine [15] Wraith Engine [15] I doubt it. If they have a Ravager Shaman they just have magic weapons on demand so incorp won’t save you. I’m pretty sure Wurmwood gets one good Hellmouth Turn and that list just folds. If they’re on Morvahna1 you pretty much auto lose between the RFP from her Feat & Eruption of Life. She’ll trivially snipe out the Leaders & Turn your recursion off, Lord of the Feast will one round a Wraith Engine with his magic sword, & if she has a Shaman, she’ll kill the other with Ravagers pretty easily. Considering dellers reasonable concern about the ravager shaman, maybe dropping a slayer and third deathripper for two stalkers to give you some more solo removal could help.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 19, 2019 8:32:28 GMT
Deller I'm intrigued by your list still. Would you mind giving some pointers on how to use Ragman in it? I've always had trouble getting sufficient use out of him with anything but a colossal. It seems like a real headache to maneuver him through a sea of medium bases without Tactician while getting sufficiently far to get his Death Field out. For the record, I'm still fond of my list and it does great into other combined arms lists. The Smog Belchers are more than just a cloud wall and are great at controlling B2B and/or medium based infantry. The BOBP is a good second line cleanup crew, or decent flanking unit with their ranged weapons and access to reposition. That being said, I don't actually get enough mileage out of the particular list in the current meta as it doesn't attrition terribly well and when I play the control game, I tend to fall behind on scenario.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 19, 2019 15:51:41 GMT
So Ragman’s roll is actually extremely dynamic, and what he does in a given turn changes depending on what I’m up against. He has 3 modes, offense, defense, & scoring. I haven’t had any issues maneuvering him through a sea of medium bases tbh, but that may be because I’ve been so use to maneuvering Arc Nodes through a sea of Small bases for years now, that maneuvering a small base through mediums feels much easier. I just treat Ragman like an Arc Node. When positioning my models I make sure to leave a “Ragman Lane” the same way I’d leave an “Arc Node Lane” were I playing a Deneghra or Asphyxious1.
In Offense mode, Ragman’s job is to provide Dark Shroud to the Flank the Kraken isn’t on. The Blighted Trollkin don’t hit extremely hard on their own, and without the help from Ragman & Draconic Blessing they can’t actually kill things like Man-o-War, Heavies, or Battle Engines. When Ragman needs to be in offense mode to be able to actually win the side of the table he’s on you’ll typically start to kill the models he’s across from turns 2-4 depending on where the engagement takes place. If you’re up against something slow like Man-o-War that you’re going to be getting the alpha against, you likely will not be using Ragman on the Alpha. Instead your Alpha is just meant to set the line of engagement. The Bloodgorgers you throw in are a sacrifice meant to keep your opponent where they are as you set up for the kill the turn after. The turn after Ragman should be in Range to Dark Shroud your target, and you should be able to finish it off with the 4 point Armor swing. If you’re against something fast that’s Alphaing you, Ragman should be in position to apply Dark Shroud immediately on the Counter punch.
In Defense mode Ragman’s job is to make sure your opponent can’t use Skarre as a lightning rod. Ragman enters defense mode when you’re playing into gunlines with a lot of pow 10-13 shooting, and you aren’t going to need his Armor Debuff to actually win. Lists like Gravediggers, Shadows of the Retribution, or Faithful Masses that have the ability to put a pile of low power shooting into you that your opponent can use to pick off all of Skarre’s Sucker! targets before putting a massive CRA into her. Into lists like that Ragman’s job in the first few rounds is simple, stand in Sucker! range, and Sac Pawn all the low powered Attacks back to Skarre where they’ll likely bounce right off her Armor 19/21 (depending on whether it’s blessed or not) ass. Many times into lists like that your opponent won’t be able to shoot all your Sucker!s directly either because Axiara gave Marauders Stealth or because of the LoS blocker in the middle of the table, but they can almost always shoot Skarre. When Ragman’s on Defense you effectively turn Sucker! into Sac Pawn.
In Scoring mode Ragman’s job is to camp a flag while surrounded by Trolls that will hopefully body block to keep models from charging him & eat bullets for him. Of the 4 solos in my list, Ragman is probably the most difficult to actually remove, so it’s frequently his job to score flags on his side of the table. That said, it’s very rare for Ragman to actually need to enter scoring mode, since he’s usually needed on either offense or defense, but I’ve had a few games recently where Ragman survived late enough into the game where I no longer needed him to crack armor or play defense, and his job shifted to insanely annoying to deal with flag camper.
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 19, 2019 16:18:12 GMT
Could this actually work? Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Ghost Fleet [Deneghra 2] Wraith Witch Deneghra [+28] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Deathripper [6] - Slayer [10] Captain Rengrave [0(5)] Hellslinger Phantom [0(7)] Blackbane's Ghost Raiders (max) [17] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (3) [6] Revenant Crew of the Atramentous (min) [9] - Revenant Crew Rifleman (2) [4] Wraith Engine [15] Wraith Engine [15] I doubt it. If they have a Ravager Shaman they just have magic weapons on demand so incorp won’t save you. I’m pretty sure Wurmwood gets one good Hellmouth Turn and that list just folds. If they’re on Morvahna1 you pretty much auto lose between the RFP from her Feat & Eruption of Life. She’ll trivially snipe out the Leaders & Turn your recursion off, Lord of the Feast will one round a Wraith Engine with his magic sword, & if she has a Shaman, she’ll kill the other with Ravagers pretty easily. I must be missing something. Why does removing the leaders from the revenants stop recursion? or do u mean Blackbane?
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 19, 2019 19:13:35 GMT
Deller, thanks for that, that's really helpful. I'm not sure if that Sucker! + Sacrificial Pawn interaction works that way though. Neither of them specify once per turn, so wouldn't Sucker! keep bouncing? The only thing I can find on it is a vague MKII ruling that says they can only transfer once, but I'm not sure how the rules as written support that interpretation. skurkious Deathbound says to put returned models near the Leader model, so if that model is removed from play, it does not get promoted and the unit effectively loses the ability to use Deathbound.
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Post by gobber on Mar 20, 2019 2:00:30 GMT
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 20, 2019 9:20:17 GMT
Deller Do you still pair Boaty with Venethrax? You mentioned in this post that you like him against Tharn, but here you said you have shifted to playing the Trolls into Iona. I intend to try your list a bit, to see how it clicks, but not sure what to pair it with. On the one hand, I gravitate towards my old Terminus DH list, for when I just need to hit really hard. But on the other, I feel like BI really helps in some matchups, such as against TEPs. Mortality and Deadweight also scare off some matchups to get Skarre something more favorable I guess?
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 20, 2019 14:18:49 GMT
I feel like I'm missing something really obvious, but none of Skarre's versions have Sucker. Does the theme give it to her?
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Post by tiberius on Mar 20, 2019 14:36:35 GMT
The satyxis blood priestess warcaster attachment gives it to the caster.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Mar 20, 2019 14:51:48 GMT
The satyxis blood priestess warcaster attachment gives it to the caster. OOOOOOOOh right, i totally forgot about that! Thanks a million, man!
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Mar 20, 2019 15:49:48 GMT
Deller , thanks for that, that's really helpful. I'm not sure if that Sucker! + Sacrificial Pawn interaction works that way though. Neither of them specify once per turn, so wouldn't Sucker! keep bouncing? The only thing I can find on it is a vague MKII ruling that says they can only transfer once, but I'm not sure how the rules as written support that interpretation. skurkious Deathbound says to put returned models near the Leader model, so if that model is removed from play, it does not get promoted and the unit effectively loses the ability to use Deathbound. Hmm, I didn't realize he was a LEADER ala the Krielstone or the Storm Rod Stormblade. But I also could have sworn that there was a ruling that RFP only worked on a leader that was under an officer. But the rules seem to pretty clearly agree with your statement. Seems like bad game experience to let a mechanic like that get shut down so trivially but I guess...
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 20, 2019 18:11:45 GMT
Deller Do you still pair Boaty with Venethrax? You mentioned in this post that you like him against Tharn, but here you said you have shifted to playing the Trolls into Iona. I intend to try your list a bit, to see how it clicks, but not sure what to pair it with. On the one hand, I gravitate towards my old Terminus DH list, for when I just need to hit really hard. But on the other, I feel like BI really helps in some matchups, such as against TEPs. Mortality and Deadweight also scare off some matchups to get Skarre something more favorable I guess? I do love Venethrax into Tharn more than I like Skarre3, but I had to drop Venethrax. I’m currently pairing Skarre3 with Asphyxious1 because Crucible Guard, especially Rocketmen, are a massive issue for Skarre3 SFR, and Venethrax just wasn’t solving the CG issue very well.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Mar 20, 2019 20:19:23 GMT
I do love Venethrax into Tharn more than I like Skarre3, but I had to drop Venethrax. I’m currently pairing Skarre3 with Asphyxious1 because Crucible Guard, especially Rocketmen, are a massive issue for Skarre3 SFR, and Venethrax just wasn’t solving the CG issue very well. Scourge of the Broken Coast? skurkious There's a difference between the Leader model, the Officer model and the Unit Commander. The latter must always be present and is used for unit coherency, but it's not any specific model. When an Officer is present, he is always the Unit Commander, otherwise the Leader model takes on the role by default. If neither is present, you choose a model. Most non-character units have a Leader model, but as it is a specific model, it can be removed from play and in the case of the Revenant Crew, that means models can't be returned because the model they return to doesn't exist anymore. It's a known and intended weakness.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Mar 22, 2019 3:23:38 GMT
I do love Venethrax into Tharn more than I like Skarre3, but I had to drop Venethrax. I’m currently pairing Skarre3 with Asphyxious1 because Crucible Guard, especially Rocketmen, are a massive issue for Skarre3 SFR, and Venethrax just wasn’t solving the CG issue very well. Scourge of the Broken Coast? Maybe? I’m honestly still in the portion of the testing phase where I throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. I honestly think Asphyxious1 is good enough into CG on his own that he can pilot almost anything to a win against them as long as you’re not asleep at the wheel. At the moment I’m more focused on building him to answer the rest of Skarre’s problem matchups. Scourge is definitely the best build for straight dunking on Crucible Guard though.
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