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Post by sand20go on Jan 16, 2019 22:45:16 GMT
I've played Sorscha3 a lot by now and never had an issue keeping her alive. Using tactician when she is surrounded by iron fleshed shocktrooper allow her to get work done and still be safe behind them at the end of the turn. The games I've lost with her were either on clock or on scenario. Models like the wardog, the Bokur, the mechaniks, and the forge seer seem counter productive for me, they stay back and don't do work so your opponent has more model on the table and thus can get more shot at your caster. Having the war dog, the bokur, the forge and the two units of mechaniks being low work model it's like you're playing 18 points behind in term of killing models, it's pretty much the definition of support bloat. I don't dislike the mechaniks with her, mostly because one more advance move is pretty good, but I only ever consider one unit, and it's only as filler if I don't have the points for more. With Sorscha3 I think you're better with offensive models than defensive models. I notice you don't have any tankers in the list, is there a reason for that? They are easily the best and more point efficient models in armored corps, any work they do is less models for your opponent to try to kill you. You could easily cut the forge seer, war dog, bokur and some mechaniks to include a couple more tanker in the list. Don't forget to use Sorscha3 offensively, out of our casters she tends to do a lot of work by herself, she can do it and stay safe thanks to tactician when compared to most of our other caster. Her gun with tactician and arcing fire is alway at least useful and she can do a surprising amount of work in melee, pow 16 auto freeze is no joke. I really need to get her on the table again - this time with at least 2 maurauders and 3 kodiaks.
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Post by borderprince on Jan 17, 2019 6:16:06 GMT
Well, so far I'm 0-2 with the Sorscha3 list. (1) I keep forgetting she has a gun. (2) I'm still trying to figure out how to keep her forward enough to be useful without being so far forward that she gets clobbered. ... (4) Shield guard seems essential if Sorscha isn't in the back line. She isn't super squishy but she does need some protection. I'd echo Auraco on using Tactician to help her do things while hiding behind (sorry, directing) a bunch of IF Shocktroopers.
But if you find that isn't enough, consider the Rager. It does the Shield Guard job better than the Bokur and late game can be a decent tag team with your remaining warriors or Sorscha3 herself. Not going to take down a heavy, but might give a caster some worries (remember, the Point Blank attack benefits from Flank).
If you dropped the Bokur, a min unit of mechaniks and the War Dog you could get a Rager without much loss to the list I think (and a point spare, should you need it)
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 17, 2019 7:30:23 GMT
Not going to take down a heavy Hmm, if you're getting Flank and loading it up with focus then that's five attacks at P+S 15 and one at P+S 13 with three dice each; against ARM 20 that's 5.5 x 5 + 3.5 = 31 damage? That'll kill a lot of stuff in the game. Though I guess it's about 20 damage if you don't want it to blow up and thus only spend the one point of focus.
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Post by borderprince on Jan 17, 2019 11:29:22 GMT
Soul Samurai, Perfectly sensible, but I tend to assume the 'average' on 3D6 is 10 (not enough rolls to assume one gets close to the average, so always slightly underestimate), which knocks the damage level down a bit, as does the possible need to charge.
Also partly because I'm assuming we don't load the Rager up. Not only does Sorscha3 sometimes struggle for Focus for that, but if she is the flank trigger (quite possible in late game), you don't want to risk the Unstable explosion. Killing your own caster has a certain style to it, but it's not a good idea.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Jan 17, 2019 13:00:27 GMT
Killing your own caster has a certain style to it
It's all I ever wanted from this game... I almost managed it too one time. Took a free strike from a kick-monk with Harkevich on my last-ditch assassination run and just keeled over; not exactly the same thing but pretty close. Good times.
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Post by tjhairball on Jan 30, 2019 15:34:13 GMT
I've now played 4 matches with the S3 list (or in one case a close variation of it), going a total of 1-3 - I'm starting to consistently remember the giant bucket of new model rules that I haven't really dealt with. My latest match (the win) involved grinding forward into a Stryker double Stormwall list. I was able to push Beast-09 far enough forward behind the screen of shocktroopers and Marauders that I could give Beast-09 a nice 6" walk into position behind the enemy objective and melee Stryker to death. My opponent was, in his defense, unaware of the Murderous rule, though Stryker was likely dead even without the rule, and had also complacently accustomed himself to the fact that everything else around Beast-09 had either a 9-10" straightline charge threat or a 6-7" walking threat. Without the extra inch of threat, I would have had to clear the objective before I could get at the crunchy little Stryker hiding behind it.
Now that I'm screening Beast-09 better, I don't feel bad about putting him in.
Sorscha3 | Sorscha2 | Sorscha1?
| Old Witch?
| Zerkova1?
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| Armored Corps
| Winter Guard Command
| Jaws of the Wolf
| Wolves of Winter
| Legion of Steel
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| Beast-09 |
| Behemoth |
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| Marauders |
| Mk II camo crew
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| Man-o-War
| Winter Guard
| Kayazy
| Greylords
| Iron Fangs
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I don't own that many points of Greylords / Iron Fangs, so those lists would probably end up with a heavier merc presence. I also want to squeeze in Conquest somewhere. I didn't use the Old Witch Jaws list at all this month. I'm starting to lean towards putting Sorscha1 in Jaws of the Wolf with ranged warjacks, going for the classic "You're halfway across the board? Okay, I'm going to feat and pound you to death with Behemoth now." Demolisher seems like a generally-overpriced warjack right now, but OTOH, I can very much picture using it as a scenario piece and it can contribute in its own small way to a shooting assassination threat (it has POW 15 guns, after all, even if they're harder to get on to target).
conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0x477w8F7p9v8n8n8r8y87chch8c8c8eKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Behemoth [25] - Demolisher [16] - Destroyer [14] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Manhunter [0(4)] Manhunter [4] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (max) [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7] Kossite Woodsmen (min) [7] Widowmaker Scouts [8] I feel lackluster on the Widowmakers given that they don't have stealth. An alternative that drops most of the low-POW shooting and goes in on Kayazy to the face would look like this:
conflictchamber.com/?c3201b_-0x477w8F7p9vhF8n8n8r8y86cfcgchchKhador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Behemoth [25] - Demolisher [16] - Destroyer [14] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Manhunter [4] Manhunter [4] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [4] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Everything is stealth except for the warjacks and support models hiding in back. One possibility with this version of the list is having the Destroyer marshaled to the Forge Seer. (Worth it?)
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Post by borderprince on Jan 30, 2019 17:22:40 GMT
If I were trying to run Sorscha1 in Jaws with ranged jacks, I'd seriously consider getting a couple of Forgeseers and putting Behemoth on one of them. Two blessed, full boosted POW16 Bombards is impressive. And if you need melee, Sorscha can always Boundless Charge him so you still get the Crush benefit too.
Could also consider 'squeezing in' the Conquest into this shooty list. Creeping barrrage + Sorscha1 freezing things is lots of board control.
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Post by hocestbellum on Jan 30, 2019 17:33:56 GMT
Could also consider 'squeezing in' the Conquest into this shooty list. Creeping barrrage + Sorscha1 freezing things is lots of board control.
On this last point; I ran Sorscha-Conquest for a while in Legion of Steel. It's really quite delightful. I'm looking forward to the Adjunct smoothing out some problems
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Post by tjhairball on Jan 31, 2019 3:59:53 GMT
If I were trying to run Sorscha1 in Jaws with ranged jacks, I'd seriously consider getting a couple of Forgeseers and putting Behemoth on one of them. Two blessed, full boosted POW16 Bombards is impressive. And if you need melee, Sorscha can always Boundless Charge him so you still get the Crush benefit too.
Could also consider 'squeezing in' the Conquest into this shooty list. Creeping barrrage + Sorscha1 freezing things is lots of board control.
Hm. Perhaps something like this?
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Conquest [35] - Spriggan [17] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Behemoth [25] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Widowmaker Scouts [8]
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Post by borderprince on Jan 31, 2019 6:43:21 GMT
I'd certainly try that list. Things like WM spam would not like dealing with it. Possible tweaks would be to swap Sylys for an Adjunct when he comes out - that may depend on how much you plan to use Freezing Grip, as Arcane Secrets might be better than Guidance in that context. I'd probably go with the Adjunct, but there are arguments for both. I'd also consider tweaking the solos to put the Spriggan on Malakov1. Not sure if it's necessarily better (I like both the Marksman and Yuri), but it would be something to experiment with for a long threat range (13" charge threat) with good hitting power.
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Post by tjhairball on Feb 6, 2019 1:42:01 GMT
If I were trying to run Sorscha1 in Jaws with ranged jacks, I'd seriously consider getting a couple of Forgeseers and putting Behemoth on one of them. Two blessed, full boosted POW16 Bombards is impressive. And if you need melee, Sorscha can always Boundless Charge him so you still get the Crush benefit too.
Could also consider 'squeezing in' the Conquest into this shooty list. Creeping barrrage + Sorscha1 freezing things is lots of board control.
Hm. Perhaps something like this?
Khador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29] - Conquest [35] - Spriggan [17] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Behemoth [25] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] Widowmaker Marksman [4] Yuri the Axe [0(6)] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Widowmaker Scouts [8] Okay, so I gave this a shot. My opponent was running what, after I reconstructed it, looks to have been a point over the usual 75 points, but Eilish didn't really do anything. Circle Army - 76 / 75 points [Theme] Call of the Wild [Krueger 1] Krueger the Stormwrath [+28] - Gorax Rager [7] - Pureblood Warpwolf [17] - Wild Argus [7] Eilish Garrity, the Occultist [5] Una the Falconer [0(4)] - Storm Raptor [34] - Storm Raptor [34]
Shifting Stones [0(3)] Shifting Stones [0(3)]
I significantly dented the two storm raptors with shooting; he then shot my forge seers out, rendering Behemoth autonomous for a turn (and basically useless for that turn). He got the two storm raptors on Conquest, killing it; I killed one back with the Spriggan + disrupted Behemoth and put Sorscha in Krueger's face, which didn't quite kill Krueger.
It wasn't bad, although I needed to keep the forge seers safer. I'm not sure that it's not better just to have Behemoth on Sorscha and have one more focus around - one focus vs Blessed seems like it's not really a bad trade-off.
I didn't bother casting Fog of War, so Sylys was pretty much dead weight.
I did think a lot about running a similar version of this list with Zerkova; in this match-up, I think Zerkova might have been more effective. Her feat could have shut down the raptors' ability to operate effectively for a key turn, giving me another chance to work on blowing things up.
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