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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 27, 2018 5:13:14 GMT
What do you guys think of a new theme force that uses Mercs heavily, like Secret Masters and Disciples of Agony do with Minions? Do any of you still have a fair amount of Merc models? Which are the ones to which you would like expanded access?
I'm calling this idea "Hired Guns" for now.
What might be some good theme bonuses? I had an idea for one that is basically a spin on the old Specialists rule. It makes sense to me that this theme would be designed as a toolbox that can be tweaked to cover some of the problems of the first list in a pairing, and that sounds like an interesting way to do it. Another interesting idea might be an "ammo cache" or "supply crate" model that you could AD; it's immobile, but it can activate and give a nearby model one of three different bonuses like Magic Weapon, Steam Pressure, or Critical Brutal Damage etc. So it's kind of like having a second objective (same stats except for maybe fewer boxes?) except that the bonuses are different and you can choose a different one each turn. Both of those possibilities fit into the larger concept of adapting to the opponent's list.
So, any thoughts?
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Post by disgruntledwargamer on Dec 27, 2018 5:36:22 GMT
What do you guys think of a new theme force that uses Mercs heavily, like Secret Masters and Disciples of Agony do with Minions? Yes. I am interested in something like this for most factions. For cygnar, i would like to see Kingmaker variant where Cygnar gets to run steelheads, trenchers, and gun mages in the army. Theme bonuses: Warrior feign death, advance move on artillery units, solos gain dodge.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 27, 2018 6:30:24 GMT
What do you guys think of a new theme force that uses Mercs heavily, like Secret Masters and Disciples of Agony do with Minions? Yes. I am interested in something like this for most factions. For cygnar, i would like to see Kingmaker variant where Cygnar gets to run steelheads, trenchers, and gun mages in the army. Theme bonuses: Warrior feign death, advance move on artillery units, solos gain dodge. It's funny you should mention that because I also wondered if both versions of Magnus could be played as Cygnar warcasters in Hired Guns, but I had not thought of it as a direct analog to Kingmakers.
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Post by onijet01 on Dec 27, 2018 7:48:23 GMT
Hired Guns army can include Mercanary Casters listed in Kingsmaker mercanary theme force.
-Steal Head Mercanary models/units. -Sword Knights -Long gunner infantry -Thorn Gunmage -Black 13th
-Rhupert Carvolo, Pipper of Ord. -solos with battlegroup controller special ability. Select solos (forum discussion.)
The army can not include the following warcasters. (More to open up game play and prevent some broken tech. Also flavor) -Stryker 1, 2, or 3 -Haley 1, 2, or 3 -Major Beth Maddox -Seige 1 or 2
Mercanary models count as friendly cygnar models. For every 20 pts in cygnar and mercanary models and units players can a one solo to the army free of cost.
Warjacks in the army gain agressive. (A model with this ability can run or charge for free.
thorn gunmages and black 13th unit gain ambush
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Dec 27, 2018 7:58:21 GMT
I would rather they fix our non Gravedigger themes first
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Post by onijet01 on Dec 27, 2018 8:23:25 GMT
I would rather they fix our non Gravedigger themes first Yah i want to see a long gunner infantry fix.. My friend and i made a cool sloan 2, character hunter and hunter fix we'd like to see over the last year.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 27, 2018 9:23:36 GMT
I would rather they fix our non Gravedigger themes first I never did figure out why Cygnar can never actually be balanced. You're either overpowered (and even then only because of one or two broken casters/themes) or you're preyed upon (I guess now it's Ossrum and what, Krueger?) until there's nothing left but swan bones. Yes, your armies are technical and less straightforward than say, Khador, but you'd think there would be more answers in that toolbox to the quandaries you keep landing in. This is part of the problem with Ossrum. The Mercs need him to answer guns, but he does it in a way that is too hard for entire factions to answer in other ways. Can Lances kill enough Forgeguard if you can deliver them? How about Stryker 1 with Centurions and a Junior? Looking at list building in Heavy Metal, I can see how it might have problems similar to those of POD, right down to the freebie options. I thought that this new theme might help to offer some new answers, but this gets back to what I was saying elsewhere about the uneven power curve among themes. Anyway, this is getting a bit off track...
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Post by Soul Samurai on Dec 27, 2018 10:52:54 GMT
I like the idea. Random suggestion: what if a theme benefit was allowing you take one model/unit that didn't normally work for Cygnar? Like the Devil's Shadow or Cutthroats?
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Post by onijet01 on Dec 27, 2018 11:04:45 GMT
I like the idea. Random suggestion: what if a theme benefit was allowing you take one model/unit that didn't normally work for Cygnar? Like the Devil's Shadow or Cutthroats? Take eather kayazy or irridian that would be very fun
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Post by streetpizza on Dec 27, 2018 14:17:27 GMT
I would rather they fix our non Gravedigger themes first I never did figure out why Cygnar can never actually be balanced. You're either overpowered (and even then only because of one or two broken casters/themes) or you're preyed upon (I guess now it's Ossrum and what, Krueger?) until there's nothing left but swan bones. Yes, your armies are technical and less straightforward than say, Khador, but you'd think there would be more answers in that toolbox to the quandaries you keep landing in. This is part of the problem with Ossrum. The Mercs need him to answer guns, but he does it in a way that is too hard for entire factions to answer in other ways. Can Lances kill enough Forgeguard if you can deliver them? How about Stryker 1 with Centurions and a Junior? Looking at list building in Heavy Metal, I can see how it might have problems similar to those of POD, right down to the freebie options. I thought that this new theme might help to offer some new answers, but this gets back to what I was saying elsewhere about the uneven power curve among themes. Anyway, this is getting a bit off track... Because guns. Ranged damage is the hardest thing to get right because it can negate a lot of the positioning part of gameplay. The person with the longer range wins unless the damage that ranged weapons can do is toned down. Tone it too far down though and the army that paid the extra points for a ranged advantage now just gets overrun by speed or amour. Its a tricky tight rope to walk and currently Cygnar is on the wrong side of it. The other factions that suffer the same problem are legion, retribution and crucible guard. Legion is currently in the same boat as cygnar, while Ret and Crucible are probably on the other side (need to see how the ret changes shake out in the coming tournament season).
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skurkious
Junior Strategist
For Kith and Kriel!
Posts: 206
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Post by skurkious on Dec 27, 2018 16:30:13 GMT
I have found it rather amusing that in Mark2 if you were a Cygnar player you played mercs so much and in mark 3 I find my best merc lists are comprised largely of Cygnar models.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Dec 29, 2018 10:05:27 GMT
Still have tons of mercs models and units from mrk.2 which i never use. Nowdays its only ragman or piper, and sometimes Ayiana Holt.
Still dreaming about a theme with more allowance for mercs. A sort of kingmaker army together with Magnus 3.
For it to work mercs would have to count for the free points.
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Post by mydnight on Dec 29, 2018 10:52:59 GMT
I wouldn't mind a Morrowan theme that could bring lots of mercs. AFter all 'demon hunter' models are coming out next year along with infernals.
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Post by hogridrluv on Dec 29, 2018 21:57:12 GMT
I would love a theme that really gets mercenaries, not to mention just a Magnus 3 that was Cygnar would be great, I love him in the lore but wish they would give us a model in Cygnar considering he came back and is in the army again.
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