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Post by chaffmaster on Apr 17, 2017 7:53:38 GMT
I've looked and gone over and over in my head what to do with Kaya 3. I'm not seeing it, I can replace Kaya2 with her in my pairings for the extra damage and less ranged defence I guess with beasts, or I can run a woldwyrds/pureblood gunline which well so can anyone. i originally ran in tharn theme with her as a pseudo defence skew. However is the anything she does better than anyone else. i think kaya does wolves better Wormwood Mohsar baldur1 do gunline better i think Krueger 1 does tharn better so maybe she spams lights well. Anyone else who has Aldo played 10+ games with her(not just theorying) can you please tell me how you have been getting on and what list you have found with her and what she offers over another caster. I really want to make her work
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Post by sirk on Apr 17, 2017 10:35:56 GMT
I haven't played ten games with her, but I'm close by. And my conlcusions have been to move back to Kaya2 (sadly so). She can be a very fun caster to play, but I think Kaya2 has better match ups everytime armor cracking and solutions to battlegroups heavy lists are needed.
Except from gunline, which, I agree with you, maybe is not what I want to play if I think Kaya3, the only way I managed to have her working is Shadowhorns and griffons. The point is: in order to maximize synergy you need a very large battlegroup, and you can't have it if you go warpwoves (and Shadowhorn is the only decent goat). My last list is:
Kaya3 4x shadowhorn 2x scarsfell 2x rotterhorn 2x gorax 2x sentry stones
Feat is almost always defensive (forget the acrobatics style casterkill) since you haven't any threat extension and you need to deliver your beasts. The biggest problems of the list are two: switching between fog of war and synergy and protecting Kaya.
The first is very delicate, since in the feat turn you often want fog of war on, but then means having to activate kaya first on next turn and not being able to use shooting song in the turn you need it the most. The other solution is dropping fog of war the turn you feat, but then you remain quite exposed, of course it depends on the list you are facing.
The second problem, protecting Kaya, is more general: you have a large base caster with average defences who often needs to play quite forward. You can drop one griffon and turn a goat into Loki, who helps with dodge and shield guard, but the blanket feels always short.
I think the right comparison for Kaya3 is not Kaya2, but Kromac2. They both have a very good punch, but no threat extension and no way to avoid retaliation, so she has to set trades using +2def where Kromac has +2arm. On the "hit" turn, Kromac is also easier, since is +2/+2 is everywhere with no activation issue. But the main difference is Kromac is monster himself and he can clear a zone a sprint back quite confidently where Kaya has to hide carefully.
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Post by phobus on Apr 18, 2017 13:32:57 GMT
I've been playing Kaya 3 as my main since she's come out and I feel like she has several good features over other circle casters. By granting reposition 3 to her battle group she's really good for gun lines. Being able to stay 13" out of reach means most models can't retaliate unless they shoot back (which fog of war works well against). Purebloods and Woldwyrds especially like this since their 10" gun range puts them well within charge range normally.
Synergy and soothing song allows her to run a large battle group and really crack armor or def skew if she needs to. The fog of war/ synergy balance is tricky but there are some ways around it. Shifting stones and sprint are helpful for getting the positioning and activation order to work out.
For me I feel like I get the most bang for my buck when I combine these into a living gun line list. I'm still tweaking but I've had a lot of luck with:
Kaya 3 Druid Wilder 2x Pureblood Loki Brennos Gorax Wild Argus 2x Sentry Stones Shifting stones Gobber chef
This is great for wiping out infantry or softening up heavies while staying out of charge range. Tons of sprays with some solid pow 14 or higher ranged attacks get work done. Between the Wilder and soothing song you can run your beasts high on fury and when you have to close you've got synergy to be able to put out some damage. Usually I feat when I'm closing in on a gun line or the turn I engage.
I hope this helps. Personally I like playing her. I think she has a solid game into a lot of lists and can be competitive in tournaments.
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Post by chaffmaster on Apr 19, 2017 6:39:43 GMT
So my original Kaya3 lists were in tharn theme with double ravagers and goats and lights and stalker and night witch from memory. I think she jams ok and was trying to make use of that side of her game using the feat to act mainly defensively and win by scenario. I have developed the list a little and I'm not sure yet whether for better or worse,
Theme: The Devourer's Host 1 / 1 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Kaya the Wildheart - WB: +27 - Pureblood Warpwolf - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Wild Argus - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 7) - Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 3) - Scarsfell Griffon - PC: 8 - Ghetorix - PC: 21
Bloodweaver Night Witch - PC: 0 Tharn Wolf Rider Champion - PC: 8
Shifting Stones - Leader & 2 Grunts: 3 Tharn Bloodweavers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 8 Tharn Wolf Riders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 11
It's not great but I'm finding the wolves can get to some sweet place and help make up for her diabolical threat as a mellee army that isn't a brick. It's kind of her biggest issue for me she is a melllee caster that's army has to alpha to have a shot at winning but then has no threat extension what do ever. Anyway I think the wolf rider chick should be 6-7 points but she's still ok in this list, I think I prefer the weavers to 2 more wolves I could ditch ghetto for ravagers again (tempted) but not sure that leaves me enough threat. I have gone gunline with her and realised while on paper words are ok, no use of synergy and giving up scenario repositioning can be big, my plan is to take a wormwood gunline though I've never played him before I was waiting for the hype to be over. So anyone produced the more shall we say defence skew list I'm attempting with Kaya ?
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Apr 21, 2017 21:21:03 GMT
I've looked and gone over and over in my head what to do with Kaya 3. I'm not seeing it, I can replace Kaya2 with her in my pairings for the extra damage and less ranged defence I guess with beasts, or I can run a woldwyrds/pureblood gunline which well so can anyone. i originally ran in tharn theme with her as a pseudo defence skew. However is the anything she does better than anyone else. i think kaya does wolves better Wormwood Mohsar baldur1 do gunline better i think Krueger 1 does tharn better so maybe she spams lights well. Anyone else who has Aldo played 10+ games with her(not just theorying) can you please tell me how you have been getting on and what list you have found with her and what she offers over another caster. I really want to make her work I have played 21 games with Kaya3. Of those, 7 were against Khador, 6 against Skorne, 4 against Protectorate, and then 1 each against Trollbloods, Legion, Cygnar, and Retribution. What I've found is that she deals with melee and armor based armies very well. She makes her army fast (not in terms of threat range, but in terms of getting up the table) because of Reposition [3"], she obviously allows her army to hit very hard and very accurately (Synergy), and she can mitigate retaliation to a degree because of her feat and Repo [3"]. To explain the "makes her army fast" comment further, consider turn one with Shadowhorn Satyrs in her list. They can walk 6", leap 5", then Reposition 3", and end up moving a total of 14" up the table. That is 2" faster than running, and on the following turn a Shadowhorn Satyr threats 12" in melee from that location. The primary difference with Kaya is that the Shadowhorn threatens to be MAT8 and P&S19 when it arrives, which no other caster can do. I played 5 games, experimenting with various lists until I found one that I liked and stuck with: Armory - Steamroller Objective
Kaya the Wildheart - WB: +27
- Loki - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19)
- Warpwolf Stalker - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 8)
- Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12
- Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12
- Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12
- Shadowhorn Satyr - PC: 12
- Gorax Rager - PC: 7
Blackclad Wayfarer - PC: 4
Sentry Stone and Mannikins-PC: 5
I played her with preference into matchups such as Harkevitch, where you are facing a high armor (and primarily melee) force that Wurmwood can otherwise struggle with. Severius2 is also a decent matchup for her.
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Post by Dev Null on Apr 21, 2017 21:50:50 GMT
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I still kind of like the idea of Kaya3 and Scarsfell Swarms. It's lost a bit of lustre with the loss of Long Leash, but it's still pretty darned good.
* Fast things with Flight, Reposition, and ignoring free strikes get _everywhere_. * Already high DEF things like Scarsfells get downright slippery under Kaya's feat or Concealment from Fog of War: DEF 17 is a thing. Add Dodge and it gets a tad ludicrous. * Lots of models with 3 initials for Synergy. * Soothing Song, while it loses a lot with Long Leash gone, is still pretty amazing with a large battlegroup. * Sentry Stones get Stealth from Fog of War.
The list I want to try, if I can ever get a game again:
Kaya3 Feral Scarsfell x 7 Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (Go on; hit DEF 17 under Star-crossed...) Sentry Stone x 2 Gobber Chef
It's a bit spammy, but so are most Synergy lists...
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Post by ratrek on Apr 22, 2017 7:21:13 GMT
I like how many different builds people have been running with Kaya3. I picked up Circle because I liked her model so much so I've been running her quite a bit. I've got three seperate builds that I all enjoy at this point.
Heavy shooting with triple Purebloods and a couple Woldwyrds. More of a middle of the road build with a couple Stalkers, couple of Purebloods and some lights and then slanting more to combat with triple goats and 2 Stalkers.
It's pretty crazy how many ways you can play her. Really when I build a Circle pairing I start with something that can handle Cygnar and Legion and whatever else I can get away with then build a Kaya3 list to cover the gaps.
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Post by Bomma on Apr 22, 2017 9:27:19 GMT
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but I still kind of like the idea of Kaya3 and Scarsfell Swarms. It's lost a bit of lustre with the loss of Long Leash, but it's still pretty darned good. * Fast things with Flight, Reposition, and ignoring free strikes get _everywhere_. * Already high DEF things like Scarsfells get downright slippery under Kaya's feat or Concealment from Fog of War: DEF 17 is a thing. Add Dodge and it gets a tad ludicrous. * Lots of models with 3 initials for Synergy. * Soothing Song, while it loses a lot with Long Leash gone, is still pretty amazing with a large battlegroup. * Sentry Stones get Stealth from Fog of War. The list I want to try, if I can ever get a game again: Kaya3 Feral Scarsfell x 7 Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (Go on; hit DEF 17 under Star-crossed...) Sentry Stone x 2 Gobber Chef It's a bit spammy, but so are most Synergy lists... Would that list just be better with Una? B.
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Post by ratrek on Apr 29, 2017 20:58:50 GMT
So the above post was from before I played a bunch of Legion/Strakov1/Cryx battle engine builds. IE things that out threat her list by miles. I've leaned more towards Juris's build with 3 goats and shoved double Blackclad's in the list and things have been going better.
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Post by Dev Null on May 1, 2017 16:57:10 GMT
The list I want to try, if I can ever get a game again: Kaya3 Feral Scarsfell x 7 Wrong Eye & Snapjaw (Go on; hit DEF 17 under Star-crossed...) Sentry Stone x 2 Gobber Chef It's a bit spammy, but so are most Synergy lists... Would that list just be better with Una? B. Sorry; missed your question. Very probably? But I'll tell you why I like it under Kaya3: Soothing Song. Synergy affects the Feral, while Una's griffon-buffs do not. Buffed griffons are awesome, but it's nice to have a finisher who can one-round a Colossus. Reposition. I'd actually love to try it under both of them and see how it plays differently, but the Warmahordes community in my town has dissolved, and I haven't really gotten into Vassal.
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Post by ispyypsi on May 2, 2017 16:33:59 GMT
Does anyone else think of a swarm of skarmorys I mean razorwings being totally hilarious with her? Max synergy and primal makes it what 17 damage?
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Post by Dev Null on May 2, 2017 17:54:33 GMT
I do have that list sitting in War Room, but it seemed kind of pointless since no one was playing infantry. Some speculation has infantry making a comeback in the new SR...
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Post by ispyypsi on May 2, 2017 20:57:18 GMT
I was thinking more along the lines of having two beasts in the back line that will frenzy. They either have to turn and deal with em or ignore em and hope nothing bad happens. Obviously they are fire and forget missles but I think I could at least get 7 points worth of work outta em. I heard that too but I'm not going to hold my breath. Usually it takes someone to win a tournament to change the meta around these parts, so I'll continue to enjoy playing the "bad" models and racking up lucky wins.
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Post by Bomma on May 12, 2017 11:09:39 GMT
So played a game with K3 the other night.
Found Synergy on stalkers to be amazing, also FoW giving them stealth was pretty cute as well.
Also found the small control area a pain and also the skornergy? between FoW/Synergy and soothing song.. almost like you need to plan a turn ahead?
Adjustments I'll be making is adding the wilder.
B.
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Post by Havock on May 12, 2017 16:24:40 GMT
Not a circle player (Khador here) but the local meta has them and we have been furiously theorymachining her.
-classic beast approach: Kaya2 does it better.
And several other setups that work better with others as well.
So, looking at her I'd say these things sort of define her: -reposition 3 for BG -Fog of War -Synergy -soothing song -feat
So, where am I looking at? Purebloods. Ordinarily a bit pillowfisted but you have synergy. What else do they have? Big. Fat. Sprays. Couple this with either concealment for more snek or (or and because you can swap!) synergy for more violence.
Soothing Song helps with the initial skirmishing when you are just boosting sprays at targets of opportunity and scooting back.
The feat gives you a means to get them in deep.
A bunch of boosted pow14 sprays followed by punching it or other pieces can put a strain on a lot of casters.
Good/bad/ugly?
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