|
Post by Netherby on Dec 22, 2018 13:26:42 GMT
How much 'fun' are people actually having these days playing WMH?
Themes very forcefully push you into certain combinations. So you can't really just play with the models you like any more and any fun in list construction is pretty limited now.
Then there just seems to be a LOT of opposing factions/themes that just aren't 'fun' to play into. We have ones that just straight up prevent you from playing the game. Then others where you just get to spend all game taking your models off the table waiting and hoping they make mistake before you don't have enough left to capitalise because thats the only way you get anything done.
The list of offenders just keeps growing...
I don't think I've had an actual 'game' in a long time. You know, where both sides actually get to play? List chicken has become so meta, I feel like maybe we should just play Poker.
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 22, 2018 13:40:59 GMT
I’m still having as much fun as ever! But, I also have a fun LGS. I’ve been playing a fair amount of Armored Korps lately and that’s a forgiving theme in terms of your chance to win even “into the wrong list” or if you make a mistake or two. I played 3 CID games with Doomreavers, and can’t wait for that to drop. Heck, I’m so exited to restart Jaws after Sorscha 0 and the Escort come out which feel like just enough to make that pretty competitive again.
Anyway, still having fun!
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Dec 22, 2018 14:42:25 GMT
I don't entirely agree, but I do get where you're coming from. This time last year I would have wholeheartedly agreed, though. Themes were here to stay, and all the Khador themes had the flexibility and flair of an inanimate carbon rod. I was barely playing, and frankly didn't miss it.
But things are very slowly coming around. A big part of this is Armoured Corps, which is a beautifully designed theme force. It has good melee, good anti-infantry, and good anti-armour built right into it. All the units have clearly defined roles, and there are an excellent range of solos. The theme benefits shore up a weakness, buff a strength, and are extremely flexible in application. Its well rounded nature means that you can run it in a number of different ways, and with a pretty impressive stable of casters; I can think of 14 that I would pick up and go 'I can make a decent AC list with you'.
Every other Khador theme is cack. There is no flexibility to any of them, and that's what leads to list chicken; there are always going to be things you can't deal with.
But the other change here is the Adjunct; assuming he keeps Guidance and remains available in all themes, he goes a long way to helping give us options. Yeah, sure, it's basically a tax, but it's a good model without Guidance as well, so fine.
And then there's Canker Frost and the Koldun Lord. If they stick, then to be perfectly honest I'll be playing Armoured Corps and a non-theme list for the forseeable. Caster-independent ARM debuff in Khador? Yes please!
Of course, I'm getting bit ahead of myself. We won't know for at least a month whether those changes stick. But assuming they do, I think I'll be in a pretty enjoyable spot even if they never stop the other themes being dull.
|
|
mrtuna
Junior Strategist
Posts: 117
|
Post by mrtuna on Dec 22, 2018 15:06:26 GMT
New but loads o fun. Basement games up the wazoo
|
|
|
Post by michael on Dec 22, 2018 15:38:41 GMT
If you’re not having fun when you are playing your hobby game, then you are doing something wrong.
|
|
|
Post by chickenslayer on Dec 23, 2018 1:56:24 GMT
Completely unrelated concepts. This game is all serious business for serious people only.
In other news, seriously like throw some mercs in or try and break the mold if you think themes are stale because whilst that was true a year or so ago, merc changes and general quality of life stuff has gone a long way. And why should this game always be about 2 hyper competitive nonsense-lists smashing into eachother all the time? Because it sure isn't unless you live in Dojo Land
|
|
|
Post by jdeckert on Dec 23, 2018 5:36:13 GMT
I just got back into the game after a long break, and I've been having fun. I stopped before theme-pocalypse, mostly because hard-hitting single-wound infantry was really bad. But I think things have gotten a lot better in that regard, and I think our flexibility as a faction is going to be in a really good place in the next few months for a few reasons:
1. Armored Corps is legit. Unlike a lot of people, I was never really interested in Man-o-war as a concept. I think the aesthetics are just okay, and I like faster glass-cannon stuff, so it never disappointed me when they were bad. But I've played the theme a fair bit and love it. Advance move and desperate pace actually means your list is decently fast. It can be built with really great shooting, strong melee presence, several huge bases, etc. so there's actually a good amount of versatility.
2. Winter Guard Kommand - I've played this a good amount, too, and I really like it. I know Vlad1 rocketspam is what a lot of folks run, but I've always liked it as a 'jack heavy theme because advance move on a handful of cheap 'jacks is pretty solid. I like Butcher3, and giving him a big battlegroup that gets upfield quickly while also granting him pretty good anti-shooting tech is a fun list. But it can still be ran as a good WG list, and most of those choices are pretty good.
3. Wolves of Winter. I loved the CID for this. Honestly, it could just be 10 point doom reavers and 17 point outriders and that would be a win. Every other piece we get to keep - cankerfrost, the new koldun lord's ability, free ternion - is gravy. You can build a list that can crack ARM or shred infantry. You can build a list that rockets across the board with Vlad2, is tough to chew through with Irusk2, or assassinates like crazy with Zerkova2. Mad Dogs of War was the most fun I had playing the game, so the return of that style is incredibly exciting. I had a blast in every single one of my CID games.
4. Jaws of the Wolf. I haven't played this list much, but the battle reports I've read are really interesting and I think Sorscha0 will open it up. Looking forward to tinkering with it.
5. Greylord Adjunct. Honestly, getting magic weapons and eyeless sight can really help cut down on those hard-counter, no-fun matchups. I really need to get my vanilla IFP together when this guy drops - all mine assembled IFP are configured as Black Dragons from the Mk2 days but I've got a couple other boxes that have just been sitting on the shelf.
6. I'm not convinced non-theme lists are completely unviable. There are a few I still want to try.
So yeah, there are a lot of things that I haven't tried out yet that I still want to. And I've had a lot of fun games since coming back.
|
|
Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
|
Post by Zaku on Dec 23, 2018 6:18:32 GMT
I have recently jumped back in, and I am not going to lie, it is the most fun I have had playing tabletop in a VERY long time. After moving to a new area that did not have a presence for the game, a small community popped up out of nowhere for it, and I am very happy. I forgot how much fun the game is (for me) compared to a lot of other games I was playing in the meantime, and our group is the only one on game nights that is constantly smiling, and does not devolve into bickering matches every few minutes about a poorly worded rule.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Dec 23, 2018 17:45:05 GMT
I have recently jumped back in, and I am not going to lie, it is the most fun I have had playing tabletop in a VERY long time. After moving to a new area that did not have a presence for the game, a small community popped up out of nowhere for it, and I am very happy. I forgot how much fun the game is (for me) compared to a lot of other games I was playing in the meantime, and our group is the only one on game nights that is constantly smiling, and does not devolve into bickering matches every few minutes about a poorly worded rule. Nice!
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Dec 23, 2018 21:04:18 GMT
The game has changed, theme have changed the dynamic, but it has also really oppened up the possibilities when compared to mk2. In mk2 all our list were pretty much 1 heavy or a colossal, and a lot of dudes, maybe a unit of cavalry. Now we can run a lot of different build. The only thing that gets me down at the moment is the waiting time between a CID and the rules going live, the cornucopia will pretty much fix Wolves of winter but we have to wait for it to go live, Sorscha0 will pretty much fix Jaws, but we have to wait for her to get released, the adjunct will fix a lot of other problem too, but we have to wait for him to go live. Other than that Armored corps can feel very different if run by say Sorscha3, by Vlad2 or by Old witch2. Winterguard kommand is more than just a shooty dude theme, the advance move bonus is big for the jacks in that theme, having access to the fun carriage is an other good thing. The only theme that seems to be lacking behind at the moment for me is legion of steel because it is by far our less flexible theme, but that's pretty much it.
|
|
wendan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 785
|
Post by wendan on Dec 23, 2018 21:39:59 GMT
I'm having fun!
But we're just making lists for fun, or trying stuff out, or doing narrative games. It's much better than everyone running the new tournament hotness.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Dec 23, 2018 21:53:45 GMT
The game has changed, theme have changed the dynamic, but it has also really oppened up the possibilities when compared to mk2. In mk2 all our list were pretty much 1 heavy or a colossal, and a lot of dudes, maybe a unit of cavalry. Now we can run a lot of different build. The only thing that gets me down at the moment is the waiting time between a CID and the rules going live, the cornucopia will pretty much fix Wolves of winter but we have to wait for it to go live, Sorscha0 will pretty much fix Jaws, but we have to wait for her to get released, the adjunct will fix a lot of other problem too, but we have to wait for him to go live. Other than that Armored corps can feel very different if run by say Sorscha3, by Vlad2 or by Old witch2. Winterguard kommand is more than just a shooty dude theme, the advance move bonus is big for the jacks in that theme, having access to the fun carriage is an other good thing. The only theme that seems to be lacking behind at the moment for me is legion of steel because it is by far our less flexible theme, but that's pretty much it. I reckon when the dust settles Jaws will have slipped to being our third best jack theme. I would argue that 'colossal or one jack, loads of dudes, maybe some cavalry' has simply become 'colossal and 2-3 jacks, loads of dudes, maybe some cavalry'. And you get even less choice when it comes to the dudes. AC is the standout though.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 24, 2018 4:54:17 GMT
Granted, I'm just dabbling in a Khador collection, but I do see much that interests me. I kept tweaking my list from the WOW CID and it really does look very strong. I think OW2 is pretty fantastic too, and she can run almost anything in the faction. Taking the plunge on a $100 caster will probably be the thing that marks whether I'm into Khador seriously. I still like Kozlov a lot and I'm glad that he has a theme in which he is a serious choice, though I already play medium-based units. I wasn't very interested in WGK until I saw the lists that use small units to get advance moves for half a dozen warjacks. I thought that was really clever and I'm glad to see a real 50/50 mix of jacks and units working.
|
|
|
Post by Mr.Human on Dec 24, 2018 10:10:03 GMT
Having fun but less time to play then I'd want to. Really happy I went ahead and bought my Steelhead Cavalry when the juggernaut nerf hit. They saved Jaws for me (the list I play 60-70% of my games). Been liking the MoW changes as well, my Vlad2 lists got alot better and fun to play. Luckily the tournament scene here is also very relaxed, sure there are tight games and serious gaming, but usually it is between guys who know each other and expect it. Because I don't play that much these days, the negative gotchas are still here but one tries to learn so do speak. And one thing I've learnt is that Karchev is less prone to gotchas, at least the caster assasination ones
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Dec 24, 2018 12:12:38 GMT
Taking the plunge on a $100 caster will probably be the thing that marks whether I'm into Khador seriously. I still like Kozlov a lot and I'm glad that he has a theme in which he is a serious choice, though I already play medium-based units. I wasn't very interested in WGK until I saw the lists that use small units to get advance moves for half a dozen warjacks. I thought that was really clever and I'm glad to see a real 50/50 mix of jacks and units working. Haha, I still haven't bought her, so if you do you'll be more serious than me, and I've been playing Khador for 8 years now! Kozlov is good in a lot of lists; he's just solid. I think he's the only Khador caster that has pathfinder, SPD, ARM, and damage buffs in one place. That's my favourite thing about WGK: those lists are very cleverly done. WGK is in something of a minority in that it's a troop-based theme that doesn't convey benefits to its troop type, instead giving a benefit to warjacks. There's a few others (Faithful Masses and Slaughter Fleet Raiders for example) but they're all incredibly interesting. I think it's unique in that it also gives an ongoing benefit to your warcaster too. I'd love to see more theme forces designed that way. You're always going to take warjacks and a warcaster, after all, and having benefits like that opens up the potential to run the force as jack-heavy, or troop-heavy, or a mix. Massive increase in flexibility
|
|