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Post by mrbill on Dec 18, 2018 5:09:48 GMT
Is this change enough to make Clockwork Legions viable?
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Dec 18, 2018 6:48:38 GMT
Discussing with my local group they're a bit skeptical, 'cos it means that the Foundry needs to be higher up the board early to both get the souls and spit them out during the Maintenance Phase, and being on a large base paints a bullseye on it a lot earlier. And then it needs to be even higher up the board to have the full effect of CoC recursion worth it.
The mass Obstructors which a friend played recently is likely a liability now since all the recurred dudes can do is jam (in fairness that's all they did), and the medium based units may see some use with Repair now being available later on in the game during activations and Vengeance granted to the units with CAs. A buff in some senses, a nerf in others, so would need to play it more to appreciate its full effects. Lucant plus Reciprocators, Eradicators and... Angels... maybe?
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Post by streetpizza on Dec 18, 2018 21:30:13 GMT
I got the CoC mystery box and have been looking at CL lately. I'm pretty convinced that what is truly needed here is a points cost reduction on the medium infantry.
Recips at 16 and the other two at 15. That would open up room for more solo additions or vector upgrades to round out the list. Would be nice to see some actual infantry support on the casters as well but that's a much deeper design issue.
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Post by mrbill on Dec 19, 2018 19:43:02 GMT
It also kind of feels like the heavy infantry rely on having a Cipher, a unit or two of Optifex Directive, a Transverse Enumerator and an Enigma Foundry or two nearby to let them hold their own. You end up dropping over 30 points on the table to support a 16 point unit that ends up being a highly effective tarpit, but not dominant on their side of the table.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Dec 19, 2018 19:52:51 GMT
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Post by Korianneder on Dec 20, 2018 0:27:32 GMT
You can make a competitive CL list with either Lucant or Axis now. Some people have had decent success with Aurora but I think it's a stretch.
There's also some misconceptions in this thread. Brought back models can easily charge the turn they're returned with a 10 inch threat, possibly further with diffuser/Aurora. The enigma foundry can stand exactly where it could before, 10 inches behind the front line. It's easy to be 10 inches back and still drop models in formation. Even better it can activate after the unit and end up in a better position then it was before.
Similarly you can run CL with minimum support. You don't need a cipher or enumerator though the added cmd could be nice. I also never bring optifex in CL. Axis and Aurora don't need the pathfinder, with the frustrum you don't need magic weapons. With Lucant I just give up on pathfinder and would rather bring more recursion and infantry. And enigma foundries are free so nowhere near 30 points of support.
Obstructors and reciprocators are the best infantry we can bring. Eradicators can be useful in the right situations. Yes, reciprocators are a little expensive but you can absolutely make a competitive list. Just be careful of themes that give take down to all their infantry.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Dec 20, 2018 12:22:31 GMT
List(s)?
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Post by Korianneder on Dec 20, 2018 15:22:29 GMT
Here are lists for Axis and Lucant. As mentioned I don't put much faith into Aurora, but others have had success with her. Axis is probably the best caster for the theme due to his feat and onslaught. Razor wall and countercharge help him control the game as well. Lucant's big issue is lack of pathfinder, but he brings more consistent offensive and defensive support. He's there when you just want to run models forward and not care about terrain. conflictchamber.com/#cc201b_-0Sd8dBd9d9dCdEdEdEdEnadqdqdqdsds___-0SdjdBd4d5d5d9dEdEdEdEnadqdqduduConvergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Clockwork Legions !!! This army contains a pre-release entry. [Axis 1] Axis, the Harmonic Enforcer [+30] - Corollary [6] - Inverter [15] - Inverter [15] Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex [2] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [4] Frustum Locus [4] Obstructors (max) [11] Obstructors (max) [11] Obstructors (max) [11] Reductors (max) [13] Reductors (max) [13] Convergence Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Clockwork Legions !!! This army contains a pre-release entry. [Lucant 1] Father Lucant, the Divinity Architect [+28] - Corollary [6] - Diffuser [6] - Galvanizer [5] - Galvanizer [5] - Inverter [15] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [0(4)] Enigma Foundry [4] Frustum Locus [4] Obstructors (max) [11] Obstructors (max) [11] Reciprocators (max) [18] Reciprocators (max) [18]
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Post by novaspike on Dec 21, 2018 19:57:01 GMT
I'm playing CL with Locke. She likes conservators and the whole list activity punishes the opponent for killing/damagin ng dudes. And since it's Locke, even if they're RFPing infantry, the jacks still do work.
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Dec 21, 2018 22:15:29 GMT
The least infantry supporting caster of them all, interesting. List? Curious how many jacks you have..
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Post by novaspike on Dec 21, 2018 22:27:38 GMT
Current version:
War Room Army
Convergence of Cyriss - C-Locke-work
Theme: Clockwork Legions 2 / 2 Free Cards 74 / 75 Army
Aurum Lucanum Athanor Locke - WJ: +29 - Corollary - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Diffuser - PC: 6 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12) - Conservator - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 5) - Conservator - PC: 12
Frustum Locus - PC: 4 Algorithmic Dispersion Optifex - PC: 2 Eilish Garrity, the Occultist - PC: 5 Enigma Foundry - PC: 0 Enigma Foundry - PC: 0 Enigma Foundry - PC: 4
Reciprocators - Leader & 4 Grunts: 18 - Transverse Enumerator - PC: 3 Clockwork Angels - Leader & 2 Grunts: 5 Obstructors - Leader & 9 Grunts: 11 - Transverse Enumerator - PC: 3
THEME: Clockwork Legions
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bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Dec 21, 2018 22:41:21 GMT
Sure. And what lists have you played against so far? win/lose?
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Post by novaspike on Dec 22, 2018 2:00:37 GMT
About a half dozen games so far. Mostly into cryx and minions. Mix of 'Rask and friends' or 'all the gatormen' and black industries or raiders of the broken coast.
Positive win rate so far, though eventually someone is going to run a soul focused caster in cryx just to mess with me (which is fine, I like stress testing bad matchups).
RFP does hurt pretty hard, especially the medium based stuff. In cases where I know I'm running into it I'll throw the light infantry in front of the recips (or move the recips toward a rectangle zone).
So far the wins have been scenario (if they don't have tons of RFP) or assassination (almost always to an angry conservator).
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Post by Korianneder on Dec 22, 2018 16:39:06 GMT
I'm playing CL with Locke. She likes conservators and the whole list activity punishes the opponent for killing/damagin ng dudes. And since it's Locke, even if they're RFPing infantry, the jacks still do work. Yea that's an interesting list, and I'm glad it's working for you, but I don't see how it's better than Locke DI or any other caster with that same CL list. I played my Lucant list into Thyra EI a couple days ago. By the end of the game I had only lost a handful of models. She has an upkeep to give rfp but the Locus kept stripping it so my opponent couldn't swap it to a second unit each turn. Enigma foundries were protected from the judicator by sacrificing galvanizers as shield guards. Lucant basically stood back and handed out positive charge because all the enemy weapons had blessed so deceleration was useless. The only time I absolutely needed pathfinder I was able to get it from my objective, but if I had been forced to go second a lack of pathfinder would have been a larger issue. With advanced move I was able to set the battle lines in a good position where pathfinder wasn't as big of an issue. Ended up winning on scenario/assassination. Thyra was quickly losing on scenario she she ran full camp at Lucant and dared me to try to kill her. Lucant/revived obstructors in the back arc killed her.
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Post by novaspike on Dec 22, 2018 21:29:32 GMT
I'm definitely not suggesting it's the end all be all. But I like infantry, and I feel like they do more than servators (and are returnable).
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