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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 13, 2018 23:31:37 GMT
Heyo,
Im deep in the barrel of jank while Im on a businesstrip in china this week. Without the constant mainstream facebookers oushing, its easier to start new ideas.
An upcoming tournament only allows the "bottom" casters in each faction, for trolls that has been ruled to be Grissel1, Horgle2, madrak3 and Grim2.
I didnt really play grissel in Mark2 so I started looking at her now. The list I have decided to run is:
Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller - WB: +29 - Trollkin Runebearer - PC: 0 - Rök - PC: 19 (Battlegroup Points Used: 19) - Troll Axer - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
Fell Caller Hero - PC: 0 Horthol, Long Rider Hero - PC: 8 - Horthol, Long Rider Hero (Continued) Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North - PC: 0 Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress - PC: 4
Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes - Leader & 5 Grunts: 9 - Northkin Elder - PC: 3 Northkin Bear Handler & Battle Bears - Bear Handler & 2 Battle Bears: 10 Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Trollkin Long Riders - Leader & 2 Grunts: 12 Northkin Fire Eaters - Leader, Trollkin Grunt, and Pyg Grunt: 7
The idea is to use 3x boundles each turn with hoof it to really use the long riders for that sweet sweet 15" threat and then repo+hoof if 11" back again. Also rök has a significant threat range of 14" in the list.
Has anyone played her, tested something similar? What do people think?
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Post by mydnight on Dec 13, 2018 23:39:17 GMT
She would probably be a top tier caster if she had more of a feat.
I think one max longrider unit will be better to buff with hoof it?
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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 14, 2018 3:16:11 GMT
She would probably be a top tier caster if she had more of a feat. I think one max longrider unit will be better to buff with hoof it? I tried that first, but the points dont really add up. Pmus the fact that I can never get more than 3 boundless charges out at the same time, meaning two long riders will be lagging behind. You also dont get any more value from the max units in Mk3, the cost is still 4 pts per rider.
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daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
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Post by daveg on Dec 14, 2018 22:58:11 GMT
I'd like to see some Raider action up in there.
I've started off Trolls with Grissel1, she has a lot of sweet tech. I mostly found that I really wanted to get out Calamity since I would get my guys murdered by guns. She just keeps grinding though, it's almost cryxian in making bad(stat) models shine.
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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 15, 2018 2:33:08 GMT
I'd like to see some Raider action up in there. I've started off Trolls with Grissel1, she has a lot of sweet tech. I mostly found that I really wanted to get out Calamity since I would get my guys murdered by guns. She just keeps grinding though, it's almost cryxian in making bad(stat) models shine. Hm, Calamity ey? It might be interesting to try, main problem with it is the same I have with grim2. That is basing the game plan around one spell hitting with a fury 6 caster, so i tried to make it into another gameplan instead. Do you think changing the fire eaters and one of the LRs into a raiders and a shaman is the way to go or would you make a different list entirely?
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Post by jherb5000 on Dec 16, 2018 0:08:15 GMT
I was hell bent on playing with grissel1 for a while, even tried going out of theme. She needs a combined arms list that isn't quite possible in theme. Mulg is probably her favorite beast but she goes very well with cav and BEs. I'll be following this.
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Post by zwergenkrieger on Dec 16, 2018 13:40:57 GMT
Hi,
one thing I have in mind is Grim2 with 2 full units of Raiders. The rest of the list should be lots of bodies, therefore SotN might be the better deop here. In addition you gain access to Bears.
Basic plan is to flood the board with lots of bodies while not being hurt if you go second. In fact, I think that Grim2 with lots of AD troops is fine going second. Raiders threat 18" under Grims feat or 20" with Aparition. If you go 2nd they start at the 16" line, meaning they threat up to the 36" line in your first turn (more commonly 34" first turn), leaving your opponent 7" inches of free movement.
If your opponent hold back his army, you just flood the board turn 1 and start a grinding game.
I don't know wether it's any good though.
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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 16, 2018 17:08:26 GMT
Hi, one thing I have in mind is Grim2 with 2 full units of Raiders. The rest of the list should be lots of bodies, therefore SotN might be the better deop here. In addition you gain access to Bears. Basic plan is to flood the board with lots of bodies while not being hurt if you go second. In fact, I think that Grim2 with lots of AD troops is fine going second. Raiders threat 18" under Grims feat or 20" with Aparition. If you go 2nd they start at the 16" line, meaning they threat up to the 36" line in your first turn (more commonly 34" first turn), leaving your opponent 7" inches of free movement. If your opponent hold back his army, you just flood the board turn 1 and start a grinding game. I don't know wether it's any good though. Its still just pow 12s with crit fire. 14 if you land a mortality. But depending on what you are facing, it can of course be good to have two raider units. But, this thread is about grissel1. Im not into grim2, as i have failed one too many mortalities in my days. Its just not fun.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Dec 17, 2018 6:10:50 GMT
Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North
[Grissel 1] Grissel Bloodsong, Fell Caller [+29] - Dire Troll Brawler [16] - Dire Troll Mauler [15] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Pyg Lookouts (min) [7] Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18]
I liked Grissel1 on MK2 and I still like her. Feat is meh, but at least she have feat in every game compared to for example Severius1 and Moshar. Biggest problem I see is that Grissel1 give nothing protection to her army, so trolls will fall on the way to battle. But hoof it of HHH is really good as can get out of trouble after oil bomb.
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daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
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Post by daveg on Dec 17, 2018 15:43:01 GMT
I'd like to see some Raider action up in there. I've started off Trolls with Grissel1, she has a lot of sweet tech. I mostly found that I really wanted to get out Calamity since I would get my guys murdered by guns. She just keeps grinding though, it's almost cryxian in making bad(stat) models shine. Hm, Calamity ey? It might be interesting to try, main problem with it is the same I have with grim2. That is basing the game plan around one spell hitting with a fury 6 caster, so i tried to make it into another gameplan instead. Do you think changing the fire eaters and one of the LRs into a raiders and a shaman is the way to go or would you make a different list entirely? Boosted 6's hurt when they miss, especially when you spent 3-4 fury and are 10" away. I've got Ellish in my perspective lists to make sure I have two shots at it. I find he's a really valuable solo in all kinds of ways. The upkeep stripping being not least one of them. If I would wishlist Grissel1, it would be that Hoof It affected her, would give her a lot more options to use her deafen spray and calamity without feeling as all in. That isn't helpful in the game as it stands today though. As I'm thinking about your list more, I'd give it a try as is, honestly. I was playing in band of heroes and I found more success having threats from all of my units simultaneously. You're current list does that nicely. Bear Force 1 can AD and have protection from shooting with Prowl and can match table presence with the LR. You can then supercharge any of those four units as needed. If they kill the wrong thing, Rok can come screaming in from downtown. The Fireeaters could be a bit of a weakness since Grissel offers no protection from shooting and I generally find they just die. But I also think I'm too careless with them and I can fix that with better play.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 17, 2018 16:53:16 GMT
jarrow I do like the list. Hoof It on the hooch Hauler is especially clever as it makes it easier to get out of the way of the Raiders and ideally to where it can give them Veteran Leader, but there is still the way that the Raiders tend to get in its way. FWIW you could replace your BG with Rok and an Axer, Bouncer, or Ice Troll so you'd have room to upgrade the Chef to a Gremlin Swarm or a Sorcerer on the Raiders, but I can see the Mauler/Brawler combination working here.
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Dec 18, 2018 6:12:17 GMT
jarrow I do like the list. Hoof It on the hooch Hauler is especially clever as it makes it easier to get out of the way of the Raiders and ideally to where it can give them Veteran Leader, but there is still the way that the Raiders tend to get in its way. FWIW you could replace your BG with Rok and an Axer, Bouncer, or Ice Troll so you'd have room to upgrade the Chef to a Gremlin Swarm or a Sorcerer on the Raiders, but I can see the Mauler/Brawler combination working here. I have only played the list couple of times, so it has still room to chance, but I like mauler/Brawler combo, as brawler is good landing spot for guardian beast and threat really far if enemy is not aware. (5+2+3+3+2+1 = 16") and pow20 under rage meas average 52,5p damage against arm20 colossal with "just" heroic ballad, rage and boudless charge. Over 65 if you can land calamity. HHH-raider comob have not worked as good as in paper so far, but most likely because I have had bad luck with oil bombs. Just have to have time to test more.
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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 18, 2018 8:14:26 GMT
Boosted 6's hurt when they miss, especially when you spent 3-4 fury and are 10" away. I've got Ellish in my perspective lists to make sure I have two shots at it. I find he's a really valuable solo in all kinds of ways. The upkeep stripping being not least one of them. If I would wishlist Grissel1, it would be that Hoof It affected her, would give her a lot more options to use her deafen spray and calamity without feeling as all in. That isn't helpful in the game as it stands today though. As I'm thinking about your list more, I'd give it a try as is, honestly. I was playing in band of heroes and I found more success having threats from all of my units simultaneously. You're current list does that nicely. Bear Force 1 can AD and have protection from shooting with Prowl and can match table presence with the LR. You can then supercharge any of those four units as needed. If they kill the wrong thing, Rok can come screaming in from downtown. The Fireeaters could be a bit of a weakness since Grissel offers no protection from shooting and I generally find they just die. But I also think I'm too careless with them and I can fix that with better play. I dont really click with the fire eaters either, but I think I want to test this setup before chaging anything. Perhaps looking at Lanyssa+Fire eaters to be something else like Eilish+6pts. Problem then is that Im not reaching the 3 solos, so i would have to change more.
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daveg
Light Addition
Posts: 67
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Post by daveg on Dec 18, 2018 13:51:47 GMT
Boosted 6's hurt when they miss, especially when you spent 3-4 fury and are 10" away. I've got Ellish in my perspective lists to make sure I have two shots at it. I find he's a really valuable solo in all kinds of ways. The upkeep stripping being not least one of them. If I would wishlist Grissel1, it would be that Hoof It affected her, would give her a lot more options to use her deafen spray and calamity without feeling as all in. That isn't helpful in the game as it stands today though. As I'm thinking about your list more, I'd give it a try as is, honestly. I was playing in band of heroes and I found more success having threats from all of my units simultaneously. You're current list does that nicely. Bear Force 1 can AD and have protection from shooting with Prowl and can match table presence with the LR. You can then supercharge any of those four units as needed. If they kill the wrong thing, Rok can come screaming in from downtown. The Fireeaters could be a bit of a weakness since Grissel offers no protection from shooting and I generally find they just die. But I also think I'm too careless with them and I can fix that with better play. I dont really click with the fire eaters either, but I think I want to test this setup before chaging anything. Perhaps looking at Lanyssa+Fire eaters to be something else like Eilish+6pts. Problem then is that Im not reaching the 3 solos, so i would have to change more. I wonder about the inflection point of 2 vs 3 solos in my own list building. It's so hard to give up those four or more points but I keep feeling like there are better mixed arms builds if I can get over that hump. I think I need to try and think about them in some new way, like make up an "effectiveness" number rather than points. It would be false data but it would help mitigate the cognative hurdle of "more free points, more better". On the flip side, maybe more free points are better or most likely, it depends on the exact list/match-up/situation. As always though, table success, experience, and learning are King. (Which we all seem to forget sometimes and get lost in the online dojo) Let us know what you find! I like Grissel as a character and want her on table performance to match my fluff enjoyment of her.
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Post by ryssen2 on Dec 18, 2018 17:17:16 GMT
I wonder about the inflection point of 2 vs 3 solos in my own list building. It's so hard to give up those four or more points but I keep feeling like their are better mixed arms builds if I can get over that hump. I think I need to try and think about them in some new way, like make up an "effectiveness" number rather than points. It would be false data but it would help mitigate the cognative hurdle of "more free points, more better". On the flip side, maybe more free points are better or most likely, it depends on the exact list/match-up/situation. As always though, table success, experience, and learning are King. (Which we all seem to forget sometimes and get lost in the online dojo) Let us know what you find! I like Grissel as a character and want her on table performance to match my fluff enjoyment of her. Yes I completely agree about this. I went from 3 solos to 2 in my Jarl-Sotn list to include a mist speaker and impaler along with the gk, and I did not miss valka too much. We will see how it goes. the real issue is that i will not face the usual crowd of it casters, but rather the botto. of the other factions as well. I guess I will have to make an assessment after the games.
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