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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 8, 2018 2:26:50 GMT
Just spoiled.
Themes: Armored Korp and Wolves of Winter Casters: Vlad 2, Sorscha 3, Irusk 2 and Old Witch 2
Holy sh#t. This is really exciting. My FLGS plays Champions tournaments maybe once a quarter, so this is ... amazing. I wonder, do we get this all year, or just 6 months?
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Post by michael on Dec 8, 2018 4:07:29 GMT
As long as all the Wolves changes stay as they were in week 3, and the beaten shelter dog "give up something good and call it a meaningful choice!" mentality on display the last week didn't wreck anything, that might not be half bad.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 8, 2018 4:17:25 GMT
Those aren't really very good WoW casters though... I mean even OW2 doesn't like WoW much...
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Post by borderprince on Dec 8, 2018 6:03:59 GMT
Those aren't really very good WoW casters though... I mean even OW2 doesn't like WoW much... Really?
Vlad2 and Doomreavers work well together, especially combining feat and Arcane Might.
OW2 gives Doomreavers a damage buff, an accuracy buff (knockdown and/or blind gun) and anti-shooting tech.
WoW may not be their preferred themes, but both can run it pretty well. Leaving Sorscha3 or Irusk2 to Armored Corps is hardly a hardship either.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Dec 8, 2018 7:46:44 GMT
Those aren't really very good WoW casters though... I mean even OW2 doesn't like WoW much... Don't know if sarcasm. Old Witch_2 is regarded as one the best Wolves caster by many.
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Post by welshhoppo on Dec 8, 2018 8:40:52 GMT
Those aren't really very good WoW casters though... I mean even OW2 doesn't like WoW much... You're entitled to your wrong opinion. They are all good wolves casters. Yes I Said all!
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Post by Netherby on Dec 8, 2018 9:30:18 GMT
Vlad2 feated reavers aren't really that special and Arcane Might doesn't help that much either. It's fine, but compared to what he can do in other themes it's just not that good.
OW2 is the best of the bunch, but only because she protects them from shooting. Her cloud kills them if they go in it and not much use for Boundless Charge...
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 8, 2018 11:01:45 GMT
So they're only rotating two casters? I thought they'd change three, like before when they always had the BB casters in there.
Good selection of casters, though.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 8, 2018 16:28:20 GMT
Netherby, you’re being sarcastic, right? Sorscha 3, Vlad 2, and Irusk 2 are all awesome in Armored Korp. Heck, OW2 can even cover that base if you want to. The real question, then, is Wolves. As a complimentary theme, I like Wolves paired up with Armored Korps as it covers incorporeal so well (although it doesn’t look like Cryx has access to mass incorporeal spam in the new ADR - too bad for them). In my LGS, I’ll need to worry about several tournament players showing up with Grymkin, and Wolves can handle that matchup well (especially if the Grievous Wounds change sticks...man I hope that sticks). As far as casters go, holy smokes but I think Vlad 2, OW2, and Irusk 2 are all really good in this theme. As a group, each of them has built in tech to deliver a hoarde of doomreavers. - Irusk brings a 5” diameter cover pie plate with Artifice, and a 14” no knockdown, no blast damage template. - OW2 brings some of our best shooting denial in the faction. Slip in a couple of newly upgraded Koldun Lords and you’re good to go. - Vlad 2’s Wind Blast is probably just enough tech to get the job done, especially if your front line doomies are DEF 15 in clouds. Honestly, if the week 2 changes stick, I think you could build a doomreaver army that would be competitive against any “combined arms gunlines”, and might not be worse off than a 40-60 match against dedicated guns (caster specific, I suppose ... bonus points for any Komrade who takes the time to sift through the ADR lineup to analyze gun potential). Now, I might still drop Armored Korp if facing a truly dedicated gunline, because double shocktroopers laugh at trenchers and Gravediggers is in this ADR, but if I’m facing somebody with combined arms I don’t think I’m going to feel like I need to freak out during list chicken. That’s huge. So, after Week 2, Wolves is now about more than doomies. Vlad 2 and OW 2 are, I think, our two casters who like the Outriders best since both have built in tech to help fix their attack and damage rolls. Oh, and Netherby, the Crow Gun only negatively affects friendly living models if you’re in the AOE when it’s placed. Once the clouds are up, the denial is only against enemy models. In general, I love that Vlad 2 and OW2 bring damage fixers for the doomreavers. I’d previously found that Wolves struggles a bit against high ARM, but Canker Frost (on either the Ternion or Koldun Lord) plus either Arcane Might or Curse of Shadows? Yes please. Vlad 2’s feat is also mind bending with doomreavers, especially when you keep in mind that the threat for one unit each turn is both non-linear and extended 2”. While Vlad 2 and OW 2 bring attack and damage fixers that Irusk 2 lacks, I think Irusk 2 compensates for that with such a high quality scenario game. I won all of my CID games on Scenario. Reading through the battle reports, that seems to be our primary win condition in this theme. That’s where Irsuk’s feat comes in. If your opponent committed to the zones, well, wreck face with Doomreavers. If he didn’t commit? Well, then he needs to deal with -3 speed on his turn. So, looking at the 3 viable caster for Wolves, do any of them bring tech which you can’t use? Irusk’s tough bubble doesn’t benefit doomreavers, but your Greylord staff will enjoy it. Then there’s Battle Lust. Since Outriders have boosted attack rolls, you could probably build around delivering weapon master cavalry with the Koldun Lord sitting in an Artice of Deviation. 10+4d6 is no joke. And, your impact attack rolls are now boosted. I would probably bring a unit of Kayazy Eliminators instead who will happily deliver that spell. OW2’s entire kit works well with this theme, although you’ll probably want to bring a slightly beefier jack package. Vlad 2’s entire kit works well too, although you’ll want to pack outriders for Hand of Fate (which makes them one of the best cav units in the game). On a personal note, I reallly enjoy playing these 4 casters, so from a “lets roll some dice and have fun” perspective, I think this ADR is great.
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 8, 2018 16:29:00 GMT
So they're only rotating two casters? I thought they'd change three, like before when they always had the BB casters in there. Good selection of casters, though. I’m pretty sure the new standard rotation will be to swap out 2 casters and 1 theme every 6 months.
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Post by borderprince on Dec 8, 2018 18:42:20 GMT
Vlad2 feated reavers aren't really that special and Arcane Might doesn't help that much either. It's fine, but compared to what he can do in other themes it's just not that good. OW2 is the best of the bunch, but only because she protects them from shooting. Her cloud kills them if they go in it and not much use for Boundless Charge... Vlad2 might be better in other themes, but that doesn't mean he isn't a good WoW caster. This format isn't about always being able to leverage the very best, but getting good options within the restrictions.
As for OW2 - Boundless Charge can quite happily go on the 2-3 jacks her list will be bringing for heavy lifting. That's enough for me. Getting the jacks to run at pseudo 4 focus, with damage buffs too, means you can use them to deal with the really hard targets (things like colossals).
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Post by Armchair Warrior on Dec 8, 2018 19:55:29 GMT
Yes, I think borderprince has it right regarding Boundless Charge. At her core, OW2 is a good jack caster and unlike some other Wolves casters like Vlad 2 or Irusk 2 who might want a colossal (losing Energizer for FFE on a 5” pie plate = totally worth it), she wants at least 3 beatsticks that she can crank up to 11 on Feat turn. Boundless Charge means you don’t have to worry much about packing Kodiaks, so a couple of Juggernauts along with whatever other jack you want (I’d probably lean on a Marauder) will do quite nicely.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 9, 2018 0:10:58 GMT
Sure, they are all wonderful Armoured Corps casters. No doubts.
I guess what I'm feeling is that none of them feel like primary Wolves caster choices. Other than S3 they can all play it, but I think thats more a testament to how flexible (and kinda powerful) those 3 casters are...
Given they just put what have to be agreed by most as our top 3 casters in the line up, it really wouldn't matter what themes were included.
It just seems like they should have picked a PRIMARY Wolves caster for the line up, like S1 and/or Z1.
I guess Vlad2 and Irusk2 are just way more popular Wolves casters than I give them credit...
On another note, how do they pick these casters any way? I haven't looked over the other factions, but imagine if they gave Cygnar Haley2, Haley3, Nemo3 and JK? Because that's essentially the equivalent of what they gave us.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Dec 9, 2018 6:37:41 GMT
Vlad 2 is exactly who I played in the CID though I was still tinkering with the build: conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0K777p7pno8h8h6inf89nf89nfnfngnnKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Vladimir 2] Vladimir Tzepesci, the Dark Champion [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] Fenris [8] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Koldun Lord [0(4)] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] - Greylord Escort [3] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Outriders (min) [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] I thought it was great. I was also looking at OW2 but didn't get around to playing it. conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0Khz7p7pnjno8h8h4i6infnfnfnfnnnnnnKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Wolves of Winter !!! Your army contains CID entries. [Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] - Greylord Adjunct [4] Fenris [8] Koldun Lord [4] Koldun Lord [4] Saxon Orrik [4] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)] Greylord Ternion [0(7)]
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Post by mcdermott on Dec 9, 2018 6:39:59 GMT
Sure, they are all wonderful Armoured Corps casters. No doubts. I guess what I'm feeling is that none of them feel like primary Wolves caster choices. Other than S3 they can all play it, but I think thats more a testament to how flexible (and kinda powerful) those 3 casters are... Given they just put what have to be agreed by most as our top 3 casters in the line up, it really wouldn't matter what themes were included. It just seems like they should have picked a PRIMARY Wolves caster for the line up, like S1 and/or Z1. I guess Vlad2 and Irusk2 are just way more popular Wolves casters than I give them credit... On another note, how do they pick these casters any way? I haven't looked over the other factions, but imagine if they gave Cygnar Haley2, Haley3, Nemo3 and JK? Because that's essentially the equivalent of what they gave us. What exactly is your thought on what is a Wolves caster then? They're basically the only casters out there with non spell targeted support for reavers. Irusk1 with battle plans and inhospitable sure, but he's also lord of the beefy upkeeps and battle lust.
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