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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 5, 2018 20:59:48 GMT
Completely disagree here. Ignore the Steelhead Artillary. It is Ossrum +40 points (little over as there is no good way to get to exactly 40 except for 4 min units of hammers.....(hmmmmm..) + Gunner+ 2 Horgren Artillery Corp and hot Swapping FFE. Couldn't Ossrum run everything listed here except the gunner anyway? Mortar FFE isn't game breaking, HAC + FFE won't be either. Addition of Siege Weapon is cute, but meaningless against most things. If he wants to spend most of his focus on a gimmick that's fine by me.
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 5, 2018 21:10:15 GMT
The change to Bulldoze effectively kills Harkevich’s last remaining scenario play niche, relegating him to true paperweight status. Discuss. Pfft. He's been a paperweight since Mk3 started. He's by far and away the worst caster in Khador.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 5, 2018 21:14:51 GMT
Completely disagree here. Ignore the Steelhead Artillary. It is Ossrum +40 points (little over as there is no good way to get to exactly 40 except for 4 min units of hammers.....(hmmmmm..) + Gunner+ 2 Horgren Artillery Corp and hot Swapping FFE. Couldn't Ossrum run everything listed here except the gunner anyway? Mortar FFE isn't game breaking, HAC + FFE won't be either. Addition of Siege Weapon is cute, but meaningless against most things. If he wants to spend most of his focus on a gimmick that's fine by me. lol. Have you PLAYED into it? Top of 1 he gets it out. He then runs everything. Bottom of 1 you have to make a decision about where to end up and whether to take the alpha on top of 2. This would be a "bad" idea.
Top of 2 he shoots your CarGol with 5 dice. Twice. Before he shot at your highest value jack. Twice. He likely feats to get both up the board and get the armor buff.
Bottom of 2 you either decide to lose scenario presence or get sucked into things. You are NOT using your shooting to shoot way in the back artillary stuff.
Top of 3 he shoots you again. He PROBABLY can not hot swap this turn as he is fueling the drillers. He is bulldozing you out of the zones he cares about.
It is a good list. Not a rocking the world list but a very solid one. THe question is whether a three point "tax" is proper. Given how swinging 5 dice can be I say "no".
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Post by Netherby on Dec 5, 2018 21:23:43 GMT
Well, the Gunner is only 3 points. Having the option of rolling 5 dice against a huge base seems decent for only spending 3 points. Adding in Desperate Pace probably doesn't do much for the Rulic gun other than mean it never has to move after turn 1.
But he's still a 5 box model with a SP8 POW12 cont. fire gun. I dunno, when you consider double battle engine lists it starts to look even better.
I don't think it's really anything Khador has to be that worried about though (If you have a colossal in your pairing, then you probably don't want to drop that list). It will be a much bigger problem for other factions.
And unless you're playing out of theme, none of the steelhead stuff is really worth thinking about running due to their reliance on other models for synergies. Only the Arcanist really has any use, but the Adjunct will be a better option any way.
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Post by streetpizza on Dec 5, 2018 21:28:49 GMT
a couple things to consider in regards to Ossrum The new solos aren't characters and can't be taken in irregulars so the interaction with hogenhold artillery basically goes away. He can however run the new steel head theme which would look something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c6201b_-17b_9o9o94949292929v7jnvnvnwnwnxnx7_nsnsnunuMercenary Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Steelhead Theme Force (CID) !!! Your army contains CID entries. !!! You are using a pre-release theme. [Ossrum 1] General Ossrum [+28] - Ghordson Basher [9] - Ghordson Basher [9] - Ghordson Driller [10] - Ghordson Driller [10] - Grundback Blaster [6] - Grundback Blaster [6] - Grundback Blaster [6] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Anastasia di Bray [3] Steelhead Arcanist [4] Steelhead Arcanist [4] Steelhead Gunner [3] Steelhead Gunner [3] Steelhead Ironhead [4] Steelhead Ironhead [4] Taryn di la Rovissi, Llaelese Gun Mage [0(5)] Steelhead Cannon Crew [0(6)] Steelhead Cannon Crew [6] Steelhead Volley Gun [6] Steelhead Volley Gun [6] Snipe goes on the volley gun/s to control infantry advances and FFE gets hot swapped between the cannons. The cannons will have the extra die from siege weapon and magic weapons so they can target anything. If one of them hits your caster then you'll also be knocked down and its game over. Ambushing Anastasia runs to give the cannons +2 Rat and Taryn helps with line of sight issues. Any infantry is cleared by the gun bunnies which can now get +2 Rat from any solo standing within 5" of their targets and the heavies will threat: 4 (spd) + 3 (charge) + 3 (feat) + 2 (crane) + 2 (energizer) + 1 (reach) = 15" with two extra focus to spend thanks to arcanists and cloud walls won't matter because arcanists can clear them. They arrive with pathfinder so don't count on terrain. That turn they're armor 22 thanks to the feat. Ossrum will also have a wall placed anywhere on his side of the table to stay safe behind with bullet dodger. Other fun interactions: - Don't count on killing the artillery with blasts because girded on the mechanics can keep them safe - If you try to burn the heavies down at range you better kill them because the mechs bring a d3+2 repair - With the gunner and mark target the artillery is RAT 8 - Volley gun is lobbing d3+1 boosted pow 14s at any huge based models from 16" away when factoring in snipe. Total of 22" threat with desperate pace. - gun bunnies can operate outside of control range if an arcanist escorts them for focus. Yes Ossrum lost the bulldoze trick but man did he pick up a nice new way to play.
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Post by Netherby on Dec 5, 2018 21:43:56 GMT
The Gunner can go in Hammer Strike. So there is no reason you cannot pair it with the Artillery in theme.
Sure, most people are playing Irregulars because the theme is so versatile. But you don't have to go out of theme to get the interaction.
I still say it's pretty irrelevant for Khador given how few lists actually use high value huge bases.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 5, 2018 22:03:37 GMT
The Gunner can go in Hammer Strike. So there is no reason you cannot pair it with the Artillery in theme. Sure, most people are playing Irregulars because the theme is so versatile. But you don't have to go out of theme to get the interaction. I still say it's pretty irrelevant for Khador given how few lists actually use high value huge bases. the Victor is not a high value?
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Post by Netherby on Dec 5, 2018 22:15:25 GMT
1) Viktor out ranges those things.
2) How many of your lists have a Viktor?
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 5, 2018 22:41:05 GMT
Couldn't Ossrum run everything listed here except the gunner anyway? Mortar FFE isn't game breaking, HAC + FFE won't be either. Addition of Siege Weapon is cute, but meaningless against most things. If he wants to spend most of his focus on a gimmick that's fine by me. lol. Have you PLAYED into it? Top of 1 he gets it out. He then runs everything. Bottom of 1 you have to make a decision about where to end up and whether to take the alpha on top of 2. This would be a "bad" idea.
Top of 2 he shoots your CarGol with 5 dice. Twice. Before he shot at your highest value jack. Twice. He likely feats to get both up the board and get the armor buff.
Bottom of 2 you either decide to lose scenario presence or get sucked into things. You are NOT using your shooting to shoot way in the back artillary stuff.
Top of 3 he shoots you again. He PROBABLY can not hot swap this turn as he is fueling the drillers. He is bulldozing you out of the zones he cares about.
It is a good list. Not a rocking the world list but a very solid one. THe question is whether a three point "tax" is proper. Given how swinging 5 dice can be I say "no".
Given that the Gunner didn't exist yesterday, no, I have not. And neither have you, unless you've been very quick off the mark with the CID. I point-blank refuse to countenance that getting +3.5 damage against one model type when using one specific type of weapon is going to bring about the apocalypse.
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Post by Valcaro on Dec 5, 2018 22:57:46 GMT
The change to Bulldoze effectively kills Harkevich’s last remaining scenario play niche, relegating him to true paperweight status. Discuss. I do agree. I was taking at least two Devastators in any given Vlad1/Harkevich list until now for exact that reason. It was one of the last features taht gave hark something of an edge but w/e. We can probably justify it by getting 4 empowers per round in Wolves now... Still not happy about it.
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Post by sand20go on Dec 5, 2018 23:06:50 GMT
lol. Have you PLAYED into it? Top of 1 he gets it out. He then runs everything. Bottom of 1 you have to make a decision about where to end up and whether to take the alpha on top of 2. This would be a "bad" idea.
Top of 2 he shoots your CarGol with 5 dice. Twice. Before he shot at your highest value jack. Twice. He likely feats to get both up the board and get the armor buff.
Bottom of 2 you either decide to lose scenario presence or get sucked into things. You are NOT using your shooting to shoot way in the back artillary stuff.
Top of 3 he shoots you again. He PROBABLY can not hot swap this turn as he is fueling the drillers. He is bulldozing you out of the zones he cares about.
It is a good list. Not a rocking the world list but a very solid one. THe question is whether a three point "tax" is proper. Given how swinging 5 dice can be I say "no".
Given that the Gunner didn't exist yesterday, no, I have not. And neither have you, unless you've been very quick off the mark with the CID. I point-blank refuse to countenance that getting +3.5 damage against one model type when using one specific type of weapon is going to bring about the apocalypse. It is seven points. Because the effect is a bubble not a target. Every artillery piece gets the siege damage. And 5 dice can spike. I want to do the math at home for the chance for 2 of the HAC with FFE hotswaped to one round a GUn Carriage. First time a 3 point model and free units cause of theme does that much salt will be spilled. Victor has too many boxes and ARM (the max is 48 points of damage on him) but I think that one rounding a derp is about 20%.
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Post by hocestbellum on Dec 5, 2018 23:46:39 GMT
Strike Tankers have a similar effect: Assuming you're against a GC and have fire for effect, the Strike is D-2 with 4d6, the artillery is D-6 with 5d6. So on average the Strike Tanker does 0.5 more damage, but the HAC has a higher ceiling.
So yeah, free models in a theme can already do that sort of damage.
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Post by michael on Dec 5, 2018 23:58:22 GMT
Pfft. He's been a paperweight since Mk3 started. He's by far and away the worst caster in Khador. Oh, I know. This was the last decent trick he had. I've used Mobility + Bulldoze to secure zones before. Now... crap, I don't know what he's got. Pfft. He's been a paperweight since Mk3 started. He's by far and away the worst caster in Khador. No, probably not. Hark needs a heck of lot more than 2 extra focus in one theme to be worthwhile.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Dec 6, 2018 0:01:52 GMT
Pfft. He's been a paperweight since Mk3 started. He's by far and away the worst caster in Khador. Oh, I know. This was the last decent trick he had. I've used Mobility + Bulldoze to secure zones before. Now... crap, I don't know what he's got. Pfft. He's been a paperweight since Mk3 started. He's by far and away the worst caster in Khador. No, probably not. Hark needs a heck of lot more than 2 extra focus in one theme to be worthwhile. He's got a magnificent beard at least?
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Post by sand20go on Dec 6, 2018 0:04:40 GMT
Strike Tankers have a similar effect: Assuming you're against a GC and have fire for effect, the Strike is D-2 with 4d6, the artillery is D-6 with 5d6. So on average the Strike Tanker does 0.5 more damage, but the HAC has a higher ceiling. So yeah, free models in a theme can already do that sort of damage. Strike tanker is significantly closer. Moreover unlike the Strike Tanker that package also is highly effective against things like Infantry if Ossum pulls that.
Anyway, I wouldn't put it on a 3 point solo. I think the moment a couple of em one round battle engines you will see (rightly) the salt flow.
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