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Post by deathbymelancholy on Nov 28, 2018 16:34:55 GMT
Listening to the newest Tseung Tsu podcast and they stated that they think every faction has a model unit that is way above the curve for its cost. They also qualified that it might be a support piece. I.E. Choir for Menoth, Hellmouths, etc. So what do we think our piece that is highly overvalued for its cost is? I would initially say stone for 9 points, but that's a lie, stone is 12 points almost without exception, and at that point I think it is fairly costed out and actually can become problematic for the faction when you have to immediately sink 12 points into your list.
I can't think think of a single Troll solo that I could labeled as a great value. Lots of good ones, just no game changers.
Also the title should clearly be *our* gamebreaker. My sincerest apologies.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 28, 2018 16:55:33 GMT
Madrak1 according to my opponents. Every game they complain about even ground and I lose more often than I win with him.
I don't think we have anything that is legitimately overpowered, but at the same time most of our units are pretty solid. They pretty much threw all of our bad units into KC and called it a day.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 28, 2018 17:12:02 GMT
Fire eaters and bears are both great value but not OP. I wish more top-tier units in other factions were like them (good, but not OP).
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Nov 28, 2018 17:18:05 GMT
Ooh. Yea Bears. I might be able to be sold on bears, they always seem to get more than 10 points out of them. The sheer terror they bring to the board might put them in the high bell curve bracket.
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Post by datboi on Nov 28, 2018 17:40:23 GMT
Bears are likely the best candidate for this, but I'm not sure they qualify.
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Post by elricaltovilla on Nov 28, 2018 18:12:34 GMT
Ooh. Yea Bears. I might be able to be sold on bears, they always seem to get more than 10 points out of them. The sheer terror they bring to the board might put them in the high bell curve bracket. It's funny, because being high on the bell curve means you're average. |
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Nov 28, 2018 18:35:16 GMT
It's funny, because being high on the bell curve means you're average. Better than being a Skinner. |
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 28, 2018 18:49:27 GMT
I guess I would say bears are the closest thing. Either them or Koldgrimma.
This isn't new to the game though. There have always been models that over-preform in each of the factions:
At the start of Mark 3 (pre Themes):
Warmachine:
Cygnar-Haley2
Cryx-Denny1
Khador-Marauders/Mad Dogs
Protectorate-High Reclaimer
Retribution-Ossyan (arguable)
CoC-TEP
Mercs-Ossrum
Hordes:
Circle-Wurmwood
Trolls-Madrack2
Legion-(Not sure honestly they were pretty bad till themes came out)
Skorne-Rasheth
Minions-Arkadius
Every game has models/options that stand above the rest in some way. I think CiD has certainly brought about power creep and some over the curce options. (Chosen, HR Judi combo, and Seige Anamatrix to name a few)
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Post by streetpizza on Nov 28, 2018 18:59:13 GMT
It think you may be missing the point Mac. Its not individual casters in a case like this but models that can be taken across lists. Themes have limited that factor somewhat though. So which model in each faction makes the opponent groan no matter which list it appears in and whenever it can appear it will.
I think the list would look more like this:
Warmachine:
Cygnar - Express teams
Cryx - Wraith Engine
Khador - Winter Guard Rockets, Tankers
Protectorate - Choir, Paladin champs
Retribution - Soon to be the trident
CoC - TEP
Mercs - Gun Bunnies
Crucible Guard - the entire faction! (seriously I don't know here. Never played against them)
Hordes:
Circle - Sentry Stones, soon to be Lord of the Feast
Trolls - Bears and Fire Eaters, Maybe Champs
Legion - Hell Mouth
Skorne - The turtle
Minions - Posse in theme
Grymkin - Gremlin Swarms
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Nov 28, 2018 19:46:24 GMT
I'm still willing to concede Bears. Why Fire eaters? They had a hot flash in the pan for a minute but I really don't see them much anymore and don't view them as anything but an afterthought in my own list building. "Murder Bears" "You brought those firetrucking bears" "god, I hate bears". I hear all of that from people but never anything like, "Well, at least its not Fire Eaters".
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Post by datboi on Nov 28, 2018 20:04:24 GMT
I really wouldn't put fire eaters on there. They require support (pyre or other) to not really hinder their effectiveness, die really easily to guns, and actually kill themselves on purpose.
Fire eaters sure are good, especially in the right situations, but nowhere near what I think the OP is getting at
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513 
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Post by joedj on Nov 29, 2018 0:45:59 GMT
Bears are our closest thing, but hardly 'game-breaking'.
Grissel2 (w/ Far Strike) against someone not knowing the assassination potential of her stupid good 'gun'.
Used to be Burrowers. Ah, those were the days. Lose 80% of my army, but who cares when a drop&pop assassination using 6-10 Burrowers was always a saving throw.
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Post by macdaddy on Nov 29, 2018 2:06:10 GMT
Fire eaters are still good. Certainly not game breaking, but an excellent first wave unit.
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Post by mydnight on Nov 29, 2018 4:02:33 GMT
That's how sad Cygnar is currently  Problem with being too early in the CiD cycle. |
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jarrow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 274
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Post by jarrow on Nov 29, 2018 6:51:22 GMT
I think trolls are one of the best balanced factions now (Kahdor and post-cid circle are good candidates too). Two themes dominate, but other themes still see table time and even KC have it's use (war wagons). Bears are absolutely our best unit, but they are nothing like sentry stones or animantrax.
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Problem with being too early in the CiD cycle.