Post by cplmustard on Nov 23, 2018 0:02:59 GMT
Repost from CID forums:
cid.privateerpress.com/forum/battle-reports/battle-reports/battle-reports-cornucopia-week-2/109155-sorscha1-wolves-of-winter-vs-asphyxious1-dark-host-sr2018-invasion
Played a 75 point game with my Sorscha1 Wolves of Winter list against my friend's Asphyxious1 Dark Host list. We were playing the SR2018 scenario Invasion. The models being tested are bold.
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_...89nf89nfnhnnnn
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Wolves of Winter
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
[Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Kodiak [13]
- Ruin [17]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
Greylord Outriders (max) [17]
Greylord Ternion [0(6)]
Greylord Ternion [0(6)]
NOTE: I think I forgot to deploy the 3rd greylord escort during this game
Proxies Used:
Greylord Adjunct - Zerkova1 (someone got a big demotion)
Greylord Escort 2 - Manhunter alt
Doom Reaver Swordsmen 4 - Iron Fang Pikemen
Greylord Outriders - Iron Fang Uhlans
conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_...i22oi5nkh-h_ky
Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Dark Host
!!! Your army contains a CID entry.
[Asphyxious 1] Iron Lich Asphyxious [+28]
- Cankerworm [9]
- Desecrator [14]
- Desecrator [14]
- Stalker [8]
- Stalker [8]
- Skarlock Thrall [0(4)]
Bane Lord Tartarus [0(6)]
Scrap Thrall (3) [2]
Bane Knights (max) [15]
- Bane Knight Officer [4]
Bane Warriors (max) [16]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard [5]
The Devil's Shadow Mutineers [8]
Proxies Used:
Bane Knight Officer - Tremulus (of Withershadow Combine fame)
Deployment:
We rolled off for first turn, I won the roll so for my regular deployment I deploy my battlegroup centrally with the outriders to the right, and greylord ternion on each flank. My opponent then deploys his army, with a central battlegroup with the bane knights ready to hold the left zone and bane warriors and devil's shadow in the right zone.
Then comes advance deploys, I deploy 2 units for each zone, putting the escort led units (I forgot I had purchased a 3rd escort) into the farmers field near the right zone so they could use relentless charge to move through it. I forgot to take a picture before using the apparition benefit during my first turn. Sorscha's fog of war is cast for free using the theme benefit. My opponent places his theme clouds covering the left zone to create a cloud bunker with the the house as much as possible.
Top of 1 (Khador 0 - Cryx 0):
I use the apparition benefit to move the left unit, and run my doom reavers into the zones, using relentless charge from the greylord escorts to get my units past the field and into the zone, spacing them out as much as possible to avoid big losses from the desecrators. My Outriders position themselves behind the right zone, with ternions giving the front outriders clouds. Ruin and the forge seers get clouds from the ternions and form a cloud bunker for sorscha with the help of the kodiak.
Bottom of 1 (Khador 0 - Cryx 0):
My opponent runs his models up, attempting to keep them out of the considerable threat range of my doom reavers, shooting at doom reavers too far away with his desecrators to put void fields in obnoxious positions to slow my advance. The bane knights move into the corn field and benefit from the prowl benefit (not that my army cares much about stealth).
We concluded after the game that this was the time to use serpent's coil, as that would have prevented my doom reavers from pushing past the zones and applying even more scenario pressure. I realize at this point that I made a mistake during deployment and that I should have put at least one greylord escort into this zone, this is one case where the added flexibility of a model like saxon orrik or week 1 fenris would have really helped.
Top of 2 (Khador 4 - Cryx 0):
I use apparation on one unit of doom reavers in the right zone decide to charge my doom reavers into the objective (behind the building in this shot) and banes, destroying the objective with a single doom reaver and killing only a single bane due to tough rolls, I keep the remaining unit in the zone to pick up another point. My outriders get clouded up again by the ternions and form a cloud wall around the house to shield my battlegroup and support models, my other unit of ternions clouds up ruin and one of the outriders to complete the could wall with the kodiak. The doom reavers in the left zone charge as far as they can without pathfinder, with some running to tie up as many bane knights as possible. I keep the remaining unit in the zone to get another point, I end my turn and get 4 points.
We both acknowledge that serpent's coil should have been up this turn, if it had, I would have had to play much more cagey this turn, keeping all my doom reavers back to mitigate the damage next turn (with veteran leader bane knights kill doom reavers on average rolls).
We made a rules mistake this turn, I'm not sure of the impact, but neither of us could remember if placing counted as entering for the purposes of hazards, we decided to play it as not counting as entering and look it up after the game, as it turns out, placing does count, so I couldn't have used apparition to avoid hazards. I think there was probably another way to play around the templates, and I likely would have only got one doom reaver onto the objective, that being said, it only took one doom reaver to destroy it, so it might not have mattered much.
Bottom of 2 (Khador 4 - Cryx 0):
My opponent realizes that he will lose if he's not able to clear at least one zone and hold the others. He starts by charging asphyxious up to kill some doom reavers, feats to restore his focus and hopefully kill a few more (unsuccessfully), noting the threat of the outriders with my feat and apparition, he opts to teleport back and camp the remaining focus.
The desecrators kill a few doom reavers in the right zone, the devils shadow help unjam the bane warriors, and they charge in, almost clearing the zone, he moves a stalker and a scrap thrall in to help contest, as well as moving the other stalker into the square zone to contest that. Tartarus and cankerworm try and unjam the bane knights who charge into the left zone, killing some doom reavers and using reposition to dig in further, he uses serpent's coil this turn. As everything is contested neither of us gain any points.
Top of 3 (Khador 5 - Cryx 0):
I move my adjunct into position to give sorscha +2 spell range, I could have given her eyeless sight but talked myself out of it at the last minute even though being able to use my handcannon on the stalker might have helped a lot in case my rolls went poorly for my doom reaver. Sorscha walks into the zone, feats to catch all the models in the zone, and casts a +2 range tempest into the now frozen scrap thrall, the knockdown from tempest avoids tough from the bane warriors, killing them all and damaging the stalker a bit. I wind rush back into the zone ready for the kodiak to protect sorscha with a cloud.
My remaining doom reaver unit is only able to get one doom reaver charge onto the stalker due to void fields, but the one doom reaver manages to kill it in one hit, clearing the zone. I end my turn and the score is not 5 - 0, giving me the game.
** Red ** (definite rule problems / abuses)
Nothing
** Orange ** (serious concerns over rules or balance)
Greylord Ternion - Even with the cost reduction and as free models, I felt they didn't have much of an impact on this game or much of a place in this theme force. Blizzard is unfortunately kind of a dead spell in this theme, I used it to create a cloud wall with my greylord outriders and warjacks, but I could likely have protected my caster well enough without taking ternion at all just using the kodiak cloud and the adjunct's blizzard instead.
In addition, with how slow they are compared to the rest of the models in the theme I found that they didn't have many targets for ice cage or frostbite. Short of allowing them in other themes I feel they need some way of applying their clouds to protect doom reavers or providing some other utility function for the theme, they're too slow relative to the theme to be efficient combat units I feel, so increasing their durability is a bit of a non-starter.
** Yellow ** (possible problems, needs more testing)
Greylord Escort - Not being able to move pathfinder around as necessary was a big detriment compared to week 1 fenris, I feel like any time I would much prefer taking Saxon Orrik (utilizing the newly opened mercenary solo slot thanks to the adjunct) and using the extra points for more doom reavers. Silence came up once but wasn't a big game changer for the unit, either give them another ability to justify their cost or reduce their cost to 2, that makes the choice between one more unit or giving up to 5 units CAs.
** Green ** (good to go!)
Ruin - Great thematic fit for this theme force and adds a useful anti-upkeep and spell mitigation role, cementing Wolves of Winter as the anti-magic theme in Khador, I like his inclusion a lot (also for the fluff bunny in me I like that Zerkova finally gets to use the warjack she so desperately wanted to have)
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - 10 points is pretty cheap for their stats/abilities, but combined with their relatively low durability, and spell ward limiting their buff options they fit the glass cannon archetype well I think.
Greylord Outriders - I think this unit is good to go, their high threat but only average Magic Ability keeps them from getting out of control, critical dispel synergizes well with boosted cavalry charge rolls, even though this didn't come up this game.
Greylord Adjunct - He's pretty much exactly what Khador needs I think, he enables a lot of new plays with guidance and alleviates focus concerns, in addition to opening up the mercenary solo slot for Khador's spellslinging casters. He feels good but not auto-include I feel, some casters will still want the added protection from the War Dog. I feel he does displace Sylys, Reinholdt and Madelyn somewhat, although that's been stated as not an issue, it's something to keep an eye on.
Bane Knight Officer - Good impressions from this CA, his abilities feel useful and make the unit much easier to play with reposition 3" and practiced maneuvers. Serpents coil didn't end up coming up this game, in our post game talk we concluded that if my opponent had used it bottom of turn 1 it would have made a significant impact in the left zone, preventing me from digging my doom reavers past the zone (Bane Knights with Bane Lord Tartarus' veteran leader would kill on average rolls) and allowing my opponent to potentially clear most of that zone early.
cid.privateerpress.com/forum/battle-reports/battle-reports/battle-reports-cornucopia-week-2/109155-sorscha1-wolves-of-winter-vs-asphyxious1-dark-host-sr2018-invasion
Played a 75 point game with my Sorscha1 Wolves of Winter list against my friend's Asphyxious1 Dark Host list. We were playing the SR2018 scenario Invasion. The models being tested are bold.
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_...89nf89nfnhnnnn
Khador Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Wolves of Winter
!!! Your army contains CID entries.
[Sorscha 1] Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Kodiak [13]
- Ruin [17]
- Greylord Adjunct [0(4)]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Greylord Forge Seer [4]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
- Greylord Escort [3]
Doom Reaver Swordsmen [10]
Greylord Outriders (max) [17]
Greylord Ternion [0(6)]
Greylord Ternion [0(6)]
NOTE: I think I forgot to deploy the 3rd greylord escort during this game
Proxies Used:
Greylord Adjunct - Zerkova1 (someone got a big demotion)
Greylord Escort 2 - Manhunter alt
Doom Reaver Swordsmen 4 - Iron Fang Pikemen
Greylord Outriders - Iron Fang Uhlans
conflictchamber.com/#c4201b_...i22oi5nkh-h_ky
Cryx Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] Dark Host
!!! Your army contains a CID entry.
[Asphyxious 1] Iron Lich Asphyxious [+28]
- Cankerworm [9]
- Desecrator [14]
- Desecrator [14]
- Stalker [8]
- Stalker [8]
- Skarlock Thrall [0(4)]
Bane Lord Tartarus [0(6)]
Scrap Thrall (3) [2]
Bane Knights (max) [15]
- Bane Knight Officer [4]
Bane Warriors (max) [16]
- Bane Warrior Officer & Standard [5]
The Devil's Shadow Mutineers [8]
Proxies Used:
Bane Knight Officer - Tremulus (of Withershadow Combine fame)
Deployment:
We rolled off for first turn, I won the roll so for my regular deployment I deploy my battlegroup centrally with the outriders to the right, and greylord ternion on each flank. My opponent then deploys his army, with a central battlegroup with the bane knights ready to hold the left zone and bane warriors and devil's shadow in the right zone.
Then comes advance deploys, I deploy 2 units for each zone, putting the escort led units (I forgot I had purchased a 3rd escort) into the farmers field near the right zone so they could use relentless charge to move through it. I forgot to take a picture before using the apparition benefit during my first turn. Sorscha's fog of war is cast for free using the theme benefit. My opponent places his theme clouds covering the left zone to create a cloud bunker with the the house as much as possible.
Top of 1 (Khador 0 - Cryx 0):
I use the apparition benefit to move the left unit, and run my doom reavers into the zones, using relentless charge from the greylord escorts to get my units past the field and into the zone, spacing them out as much as possible to avoid big losses from the desecrators. My Outriders position themselves behind the right zone, with ternions giving the front outriders clouds. Ruin and the forge seers get clouds from the ternions and form a cloud bunker for sorscha with the help of the kodiak.
Bottom of 1 (Khador 0 - Cryx 0):
My opponent runs his models up, attempting to keep them out of the considerable threat range of my doom reavers, shooting at doom reavers too far away with his desecrators to put void fields in obnoxious positions to slow my advance. The bane knights move into the corn field and benefit from the prowl benefit (not that my army cares much about stealth).
We concluded after the game that this was the time to use serpent's coil, as that would have prevented my doom reavers from pushing past the zones and applying even more scenario pressure. I realize at this point that I made a mistake during deployment and that I should have put at least one greylord escort into this zone, this is one case where the added flexibility of a model like saxon orrik or week 1 fenris would have really helped.
Top of 2 (Khador 4 - Cryx 0):
I use apparation on one unit of doom reavers in the right zone decide to charge my doom reavers into the objective (behind the building in this shot) and banes, destroying the objective with a single doom reaver and killing only a single bane due to tough rolls, I keep the remaining unit in the zone to pick up another point. My outriders get clouded up again by the ternions and form a cloud wall around the house to shield my battlegroup and support models, my other unit of ternions clouds up ruin and one of the outriders to complete the could wall with the kodiak. The doom reavers in the left zone charge as far as they can without pathfinder, with some running to tie up as many bane knights as possible. I keep the remaining unit in the zone to get another point, I end my turn and get 4 points.
We both acknowledge that serpent's coil should have been up this turn, if it had, I would have had to play much more cagey this turn, keeping all my doom reavers back to mitigate the damage next turn (with veteran leader bane knights kill doom reavers on average rolls).
We made a rules mistake this turn, I'm not sure of the impact, but neither of us could remember if placing counted as entering for the purposes of hazards, we decided to play it as not counting as entering and look it up after the game, as it turns out, placing does count, so I couldn't have used apparition to avoid hazards. I think there was probably another way to play around the templates, and I likely would have only got one doom reaver onto the objective, that being said, it only took one doom reaver to destroy it, so it might not have mattered much.
Bottom of 2 (Khador 4 - Cryx 0):
My opponent realizes that he will lose if he's not able to clear at least one zone and hold the others. He starts by charging asphyxious up to kill some doom reavers, feats to restore his focus and hopefully kill a few more (unsuccessfully), noting the threat of the outriders with my feat and apparition, he opts to teleport back and camp the remaining focus.
The desecrators kill a few doom reavers in the right zone, the devils shadow help unjam the bane warriors, and they charge in, almost clearing the zone, he moves a stalker and a scrap thrall in to help contest, as well as moving the other stalker into the square zone to contest that. Tartarus and cankerworm try and unjam the bane knights who charge into the left zone, killing some doom reavers and using reposition to dig in further, he uses serpent's coil this turn. As everything is contested neither of us gain any points.
Top of 3 (Khador 5 - Cryx 0):
I move my adjunct into position to give sorscha +2 spell range, I could have given her eyeless sight but talked myself out of it at the last minute even though being able to use my handcannon on the stalker might have helped a lot in case my rolls went poorly for my doom reaver. Sorscha walks into the zone, feats to catch all the models in the zone, and casts a +2 range tempest into the now frozen scrap thrall, the knockdown from tempest avoids tough from the bane warriors, killing them all and damaging the stalker a bit. I wind rush back into the zone ready for the kodiak to protect sorscha with a cloud.
My remaining doom reaver unit is only able to get one doom reaver charge onto the stalker due to void fields, but the one doom reaver manages to kill it in one hit, clearing the zone. I end my turn and the score is not 5 - 0, giving me the game.
** Red ** (definite rule problems / abuses)
Nothing
** Orange ** (serious concerns over rules or balance)
Greylord Ternion - Even with the cost reduction and as free models, I felt they didn't have much of an impact on this game or much of a place in this theme force. Blizzard is unfortunately kind of a dead spell in this theme, I used it to create a cloud wall with my greylord outriders and warjacks, but I could likely have protected my caster well enough without taking ternion at all just using the kodiak cloud and the adjunct's blizzard instead.
In addition, with how slow they are compared to the rest of the models in the theme I found that they didn't have many targets for ice cage or frostbite. Short of allowing them in other themes I feel they need some way of applying their clouds to protect doom reavers or providing some other utility function for the theme, they're too slow relative to the theme to be efficient combat units I feel, so increasing their durability is a bit of a non-starter.
** Yellow ** (possible problems, needs more testing)
Greylord Escort - Not being able to move pathfinder around as necessary was a big detriment compared to week 1 fenris, I feel like any time I would much prefer taking Saxon Orrik (utilizing the newly opened mercenary solo slot thanks to the adjunct) and using the extra points for more doom reavers. Silence came up once but wasn't a big game changer for the unit, either give them another ability to justify their cost or reduce their cost to 2, that makes the choice between one more unit or giving up to 5 units CAs.
** Green ** (good to go!)
Ruin - Great thematic fit for this theme force and adds a useful anti-upkeep and spell mitigation role, cementing Wolves of Winter as the anti-magic theme in Khador, I like his inclusion a lot (also for the fluff bunny in me I like that Zerkova finally gets to use the warjack she so desperately wanted to have)
Doom Reaver Swordsmen - 10 points is pretty cheap for their stats/abilities, but combined with their relatively low durability, and spell ward limiting their buff options they fit the glass cannon archetype well I think.
Greylord Outriders - I think this unit is good to go, their high threat but only average Magic Ability keeps them from getting out of control, critical dispel synergizes well with boosted cavalry charge rolls, even though this didn't come up this game.
Greylord Adjunct - He's pretty much exactly what Khador needs I think, he enables a lot of new plays with guidance and alleviates focus concerns, in addition to opening up the mercenary solo slot for Khador's spellslinging casters. He feels good but not auto-include I feel, some casters will still want the added protection from the War Dog. I feel he does displace Sylys, Reinholdt and Madelyn somewhat, although that's been stated as not an issue, it's something to keep an eye on.
Bane Knight Officer - Good impressions from this CA, his abilities feel useful and make the unit much easier to play with reposition 3" and practiced maneuvers. Serpents coil didn't end up coming up this game, in our post game talk we concluded that if my opponent had used it bottom of turn 1 it would have made a significant impact in the left zone, preventing me from digging my doom reavers past the zone (Bane Knights with Bane Lord Tartarus' veteran leader would kill on average rolls) and allowing my opponent to potentially clear most of that zone early.
