|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 20, 2018 3:07:33 GMT
Every few months my LGS runs a Champions tournament. We have one coming up this Saturday. I’m still digging Sorscha 3 with double shock troopers, and will bring her.
I can’t figure out what to bring as an off list. My LGS has a wide variety of factions, so I could see anything. I feel like the only “hole” that I know about where I wouldn’t auto-drop Sorscha is Grymkin with 3-4 gremlin swarms, since my only magic weapon in the Sorscha list is Frostfang.
I brough Irusk 2 last time, and didn’t love it.
Grymkin is slow, without many guns, so I’m wondering if I might just bring Butcher 1 with A&H (Valachev for free), double Eliminators, and 7 jacks (including Ruin).
Anyone have a better idea as a specific Grymkin + Swarms drop?
|
|
|
Post by michael on Nov 20, 2018 3:42:50 GMT
Do you actually expect to face a Grymkin list like that?
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 20, 2018 3:45:58 GMT
Yeah, I did last time. I think he had 3. So I dropped Irusk piloting a Victor, Markov and Something, and a bunch of Kayzay. Didn’t love it.
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Nov 20, 2018 11:47:19 GMT
What I use against grymkin is Winterguard kommand Butcher3 Ruin Maraudeur Juggernaut Fun carriage Artillery Kapitan Kovnik joe Widowmaker marksman Mortar Full winterguard infantry +ca +3 rockets Ayana & holt+ valachev
It works very well into grymkin and nearly all of cryx. While waiting for the adjunct we actually have very few good grymkin drop and this is the best one I found so far, by a fair margin.
Vlad2 wolves of winter is also an option, but a depressing one while we wait for the cid to be live.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Nov 20, 2018 12:01:10 GMT
He's not in the Champions Roster, is he? It's Butcher1, Irusk2, Sorscha3, and Zerkova1
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Nov 20, 2018 13:14:54 GMT
So my two questions.
What do you want your second list to achieve that your first list struggles to do?
Exp: assassination, scenerio, attrition, armor cracking, other.
Secondly what is the way you want to play that scenerio out?
Example: if Grymkin are your weakness to Scorca 3. Than both Zerkova and Butcher 1 bring a balanced answer. But is scenerio is your deciding factor. Tilt with an agressive Iursk 2 legion of steal list.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Nov 20, 2018 13:20:46 GMT
You can't take Legion of Steel, either. The current lineup is only Armoured Corps and Jaws of the Wolf, theme-wise.
I think B1 Jaws is a reasonable choice, but I doubt you need A&H. You can marshal a couple on the Forge Seers, and you've got Ruin. I'd be astounded if that wan't enough to deal with some Gremlins.
Another option is Zerkova1, who can cheerfully snipe them through Stealth with Hex Blast, although it's pretty focus intensive.
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on Nov 20, 2018 13:49:27 GMT
I'd agree with Butcher1 in Champions.
Maybe something like: Butcher1
-Ruin
-Berserker x5
Malakov1
-Marauder
Forgeseer
-Behemoth
Forgeseer
Eliminators
Eliminators
Malakov means you have two jacks with decent (although not really good) threat range. Behemoth is the lovely magical + blessed fully boosted bombards.
Berserkers are sort of weirdly the front line and other jacks will need to hang back a bit. But if you do seem to have a few Berserkers in decent positions, Full Throttle + feat makes them very good even with just power up focus.
You could drop a Berserker to upgrade the Marauder to a Spriggan for the anti-stealth that also helps vs Gremlins. Use the two free points for a Tinker (for contesting) or to upgrade a Berserker to a Rager (not sure that's really worth it though).
|
|
|
Post by auraco on Nov 20, 2018 15:25:48 GMT
Oh we're talking champion... I got nothing, our champion lineup is terrible against Grymkin. Our best option is still terrible.
|
|
|
Post by anderfreak on Nov 20, 2018 21:46:48 GMT
Every few months my LGS runs a Champions tournament. We have one coming up this Saturday. I’m still digging Sorscha 3 with double shock troopers, and will bring her. I can’t figure out what to bring as an off list. My LGS has a wide variety of factions, so I could see anything. I feel like the only “hole” that I know about where I wouldn’t auto-drop Sorscha is Grymkin with 3-4 gremlin swarms, since my only magic weapon in the Sorscha list is Frostfang. I brough Irusk 2 last time, and didn’t love it. Grymkin is slow, without many guns, so I’m wondering if I might just bring Butcher 1 with A&H (Valachev for free), double Eliminators, and 7 jacks (including Ruin). Anyone have a better idea as a specific Grymkin + Swarms drop? Move Sorscha3 to WoW for the Grymkin matchup, play Irusk1 with AC for everything else.
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 21, 2018 12:34:25 GMT
Thanks so far for your input. This is a Champions only question. onijet01, the only thing I want the list to do is cover for Sorscha 3s one bad Champins matchup, which is Gremlin Swam. My AK list has no anti incorporeal tech. I haven’t encountered another matchup that I wouldn’t just reach for her given our miserable Champions lineup. borderprince, I think that lineup only really pays off with a Spriggan, but then I’m point saddled with 3 premium jacks which i don’t love from a piece trading standpoint. Ruin plus a Forge Seer marshalling something might be enough tech, though. Boy oh boy, wouldn’t it be nice if the Ternion were available in Jaws of the Wolf. Note to Self: The Graylord Adjunct and Sorscha 0 are probably enough to make Jaws playable again. Maybe something like this. I know it’s my Grymkin drop, so I want as much armor cracking as possible. The Juggernaut on Malakov can effectively start any kind of piece trading war. I want a 2nd pathfinder jack, so the Kodiak is a natural fit. The Destroyer on a Forge Seer is always a nice sniper, and I do feel like 5 models with magic attacks (Butcher, Malakov, Ruin, Destoyer, and the Forge Seer his own good self) are enough. The Eliminators are really useful for clearing out pesky screening pumpkin heads and are a more than adequate melee speed bump against Grymkin beasts, with just high enough combat DEF to slow things down. Hmm...I think I like it. Khador - Butcher 1 - Champs Theme: Jaws of the Wolf 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Orsus Zoktavir, The Butcher of Khardov - WJ: +28 - Ruin - PC: 17 (Battlegroup Points Used: 17) - Kodiak - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11) - Marauder - PC: 11 - Marauder - PC: 11 - Marauder - PC: 11 Yuri the Axe - PC: 0 Greylord Forge Seer - PC: 0 - Destroyer - PC: 14 Kovnik Andrei Malakov - PC: 0 - Juggernaut - PC: 13 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Kayazy Eliminators - Leader & Grunt: 5 Battle Mechaniks - Leader & 3 Grunts: 3
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Nov 21, 2018 12:47:08 GMT
Note to Self: The Graylord Adjunct and Sorscha 0 are probably enough to make Jaws playable again. Jaws is playable, but the problem is its crippling lack of speed. Neither of them help dodge the fact that sometimes you're just going to lose on scenario. The Adjunct really helps into a couple of very specific problems, and Sorscha is just efficient as hell, but they're not game changers for Jaws; they fix small issues, not big ones. It might be that they help Jaws by making it more viable with a wider range of casters. Time will tell. Regarding the champions thing; that Butcher list looks like it could do some work into Grymkin. I like it.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Nov 21, 2018 15:06:00 GMT
So Armchair Worrior this is my oppinion of a list. conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0x7bkRkRkRkRkYkYhF7phF7p9n8686chchiE8IKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Zerkova 1] Koldun Kommander Aleksandra Zerkova [+28] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] - Destroyer [14] - Destroyer [14] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Mad Dog [8] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Mad Dog [8] Harlan Versh, Illuminated One [4] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Tactical Arcanist Corps [7] - Koldun Kapitan Valachev [0(4)] I know it does not read to be good on paper but here are my points. Beserkers can trade well into grymkin (even of they can explode) at mat 6 they are less likely to his the def 13 skin and moans but can still trade in a 68% chance to hit. Add to that they can harm arm 19 models reliably they can produce work well abouve their points. Mad dogs. My dark horse tech. They answer the issue of speed and can produce some high speed contesting models. Under the jack martial bonus they can run 12 inches (with fleet) great for contesting. They can also answer some gremlin swarm issues with pure mat 8 melee (again jack martial benifit) Destroyers i wanted on the forge seers but decided mad dogs were a better fit. The double boostable guns alow zerkova 1 to do damage to key targets on entry. Harlin versh is a magic gun who punishes casters/models that use upkeeps. Tac. Run them turn 1, on turn two your opponent may not relize their magic threat is 17 inches with zepher. And zerkova because she can shut down charges guns orders and special attavks on her feat letting you pic how you will engage the grymkin on your own terms. Thats just my oppinion of a list
|
|
|
Post by Armchair Warrior on Nov 22, 2018 2:57:45 GMT
onijet01 that might be a good list, but I’m spamming a few Marauders instead of Beserkers because: - I only own two Beskers (one kit, one old school) - I own 4 kits that can be turned into Marauders (well, technically 1 old school metal, and 3 magnetized kits) I will squeeze in 1-2 mad dog/beserkers into some lists, but haven’t felt the need to go out and buy a ton of kits. They really do tend to crumble like paper under any dedicated effort compared to a standard Khador heavy.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Nov 22, 2018 4:09:22 GMT
onijet01 that might be a good list, but I’m spamming a few Marauders instead of Beserkers because: - I only own two Beskers (one kit, one old school) - I own 4 kits that can be turned into Marauders (well, technically 1 old school metal, and 3 magnetized kits) I will squeeze in 1-2 mad dog/beserkers into some lists, but haven’t felt the need to go out and buy a ton of kits. They really do tend to crumble like paper under any dedicated effort compared to a standard Khador heavy. Hey thats fine as i say adjust as you need. I own alot because of hark and karcheve (mkii days) the meat of the list is Tac and valacheve Forge seer (jack martialed jacks) And versh. Thats a hood incoporial fix and the rest build as you like
|
|