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Post by tybork on Nov 11, 2018 22:23:37 GMT
Hi guys i'm a new player of Legion and for new player i mean totally new player! Right now i own only Hordes Primal and the Legion Command book.
I have a couple of question regarding the box:
1) Is it a good starter for newbie? 2) One time become a better player i need change all the box models or i can use them yet (talking about competitiveness)? 3) The heavy beast (Scythean and Carnivean) and the scout in the box are old metal models or the repack? (I'm questioning for magnetizing the beast and for the scout/blightblades).
Thank you very much for every people that can help me (sorry for the english, it's not my primary language)!!!
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Post by Falcen on Nov 12, 2018 1:05:52 GMT
I think it is a good starting point. Thagrosh1 forgives errors more than most other Legion Casters but is still playable long term. The heavies are plastic afaik, so magnetizing isn't an issue. The Carnivean is one of our most played heavies, the Scythean less so but imho that's okay with magnets. Since MK3's release I played Swordsman and Strider Scouts regularly. Although they're not in the usual top tier tournament lists atm (mostly due to Themes), imho they are good to have. Shepherds are must have models. Incubi won't be used much outside of Kallus1, but at least he's one of our top tier Casters atm.
In my opinion it depends if you want to collect a good stock of (different) Legion choices or if you want to build up lists with the current hotness asap.
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Post by tybork on Nov 12, 2018 13:09:30 GMT
Thank you for the answer. I don't care about hotness fist i want only play for fun or in little tournament, second i want buy only the casters i like. I like the swordman, i'm a little doubtful about the Scouts.
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Post by josephkerr on Nov 12, 2018 17:17:54 GMT
The Scout CA is great. Reposition, two CMD bubbles , and 2 more bows is a solid value for 4 points.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Nov 12, 2018 19:39:53 GMT
It's a weird box I think. If you want to stay in theme the content doesn't support eachother, like at all. The beasts don't share any theme with the units, and the units don't share a theme with eachother either. You need three different lists to use all these models in theme.
So with this box you want to stay out of theme and make the most of all the synergies legion has to offer. There's nothing specific in that regard either, but Thagrosh probably is the most allround warlock we have, and I think the box does do very well in that regard.
However, allround armies are tricky in this game because they don't answer any specific threat really well. The 75pt format, which is the standard for so many people, just doesn't allow you to cover all your bases, you can't field enough models. That's why the tournament standard asks you to bring two lists which together should cover as much as possible.
Whether you will have fun with this box as the basis of your army will depend on your group I think. If the people you play with also enjoy the challenge to build out of theme allcommers list you will probably have a great time with it. That might be a big if though. Look around the forums and what is played at the (big) tournaments and you will generally see a skew of some sort, which again is a problem for 75pt allcommers lists.
Note there is no reason why you shouldn't play bigger or smaller games then 75pts. What you prefer depends on how complicated you and your friends want your games to be.
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Post by Falcen on Nov 12, 2018 21:25:55 GMT
One note to magnetizing Striders: I once did it with the Scouts/Blightblades. It's fiddly but possible. In the end I glued the arms though. The magnets have to be very small and while they hold their arms, they are dropping very easily when any outside pressure is applied. After I searched for lost arms a dozen times in my transport bag I had enough.
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Post by maneck on Nov 12, 2018 21:29:53 GMT
When I got started I bought the Army Box and the forces of book at the same time. It seemed like a nice way to get a variety of different units. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before I figured out it's a poor choice for a new player.
For better or for worse, theme forces are now the standard way to play. While playing out of theme is permitted doing so involves giving up a lot of free points to your opponent. In this environment the variety offered in the Legion 2017 Army box turns out to be a significant downside. The units it includes are spread across three different themes (Oracles of Annihilation, Children of the Dragon and Ravens of War). If you're going to play any of those themes, this box will give you a small fraction of what you need to table an army (i.e. a lot of the units are locked out of most themes). You're going to have to build three full armies before you're getting the notional benefit of the Army Box.
The kicker is the consensus pick for most potent Legion theme is Primal Terrors. Primal Terrors was created long after the Legion Army Box was created. While technically the warbeasts in the Army Box can be used in a Primal Terrors theme, they aren't a conventional or particularly sensible choice for that purpose.
I would suggest buying the Battle Box (it's really cheap) and get started learning with that. Then decide on a theme and build piecemeal towards a full army within that theme.
The Legion Army Box probably isn't a bad way to pick up models once you're already up and running with a Theme Force, and are looking to move into the next theme. As a way to get started, it's not great.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Nov 12, 2018 22:02:36 GMT
When I got started I bought the Army Box and the forces of book at the same time. It seemed like a nice way to get a variety of different units. Unfortunately, it wasn't long before I figured out it's a poor choice for a new player. [and other valuable points] I would agree with this if you're dropping the new player into a super-competitive meta. If not, it's a good introduction to what the Legion has to offer, with room to customize in a lot of different directions.
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Post by tybork on Nov 13, 2018 16:53:49 GMT
Holy cow! What a nice surprise all these answer! I realize only now i don't tell you that i'm a player of Mercenaries, i know the rules and the game i'm a newbie player only with Legion than my question on the box. I'm reading conflicting version, maybe its better for my first purchase the Battlegroup Starter?
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Post by Falcen on Nov 13, 2018 19:19:29 GMT
I would agree with this if you're dropping the new player into a super-competitive meta. If not, it's a good introduction to what the Legion has to offer, with room to customize in a lot of different directions. I think thelat's post summarizes it well. I brushed the theme issue only slightly, but their argument is more important than I mentioned. If you don't know what you want to play the box works as a starting point to find it out. But if you know which theme you want to play for your first full list, it's better to hand pick the models you need. If you like Primal Terrors and can still get your hands on the Ogrun Army box (mostly sold out afaik, but maybe you can still find it somewhere) that might be an alternative.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Nov 13, 2018 22:11:53 GMT
Holy cow! What a nice surprise all these answer! I realize only now i don't tell you that i'm a player of Mercenaries, i know the rules and the game i'm a newbie player only with Legion than my question on the box. I'm reading conflicting version, maybe its better for my first purchase the Battlegroup Starter? Not necessarily, it really depends on what you and your friends want from the game, which might be in direct opposition to what PP and many people on these forums want. Most tournament players will regard this box as garbage, because it's not very high up the powercurve. PP wants this game to be competitive with a "gloves off" approach, which means they are focussing on the top of the powercurve and try to flesh that out as much as possible. A whole lot of list compositions do not make it to the top of this powercurve, which is a major reason why list building is so interesting. That doesn't mean though lists that are in the middle of the pack or dangle down in the mud are unfun or uninteresting. It just means they stand very little chance of countering whatever the big boys are bringing to the table. The question is do you care? Do you and your friends want to play (against) the pairings of specialized (and often spaminfested) lists that dominate the powercurve or play more varied lists that sport a bit of everything? It's all equally balanced if that's a concern. If it's the first I do not recommend this box, but if it's the later it's fine... ... I think, do you get a decent discount compared to buying this all seperate? Another consideration is that it's almost a crime not to play Typhon when Thagrosh is da boss. Which means you want to ditch some things in the box to make room for Typhon anyway, and it might even be cheaper to buy it all seperate.
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Post by maneck on Nov 15, 2018 14:56:25 GMT
Holy cow! What a nice surprise all these answer! I realize only now i don't tell you that i'm a player of Mercenaries, i know the rules and the game i'm a newbie player only with Legion than my question on the box. I'm reading conflicting version, maybe its better for my first purchase the Battlegroup Starter? The Battlegroup Starter is not controversial. It costs only slightly more than a stand alone Neraph, and also includes a Nephilim Bolt Thrower. Get one for sure, it's super cheap. If you decide to play legion, you'll probably end up with two or three. The 2017 Army box is highly controversial. It's not that it is so bad no one should buy it. But for a lot of people it isn't a good choice. That includes anyone wanting to use it to build a theme, whether of their own volition or because that's what the local scene is like. It's great that you're an experienced player, because you know what your local scene is like. If people don't always play in theme, sure, give it a shot. In a non-competitive environment it gives you a bunch of distinct parts of the Legion force which you can put on the table together. If themes are a thing, you can still get it - but mind that you'll not be able to use more than about 1/3 of the box at a given time.
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Post by tybork on Nov 18, 2018 18:46:23 GMT
Ok i have my army, for the moment i have purchased at PP and a second hand army for a very good price. Now i own these models:
Warlock:
Thag 1,2 Vayl 1,2 Fyanna 2 Lylyth 1,2 Kryssa
Warbeast: 3 Heavy with magnets (Carnivean, Ravagore and Scythean) Zuriel Azrael 2 Angelius 2 Seraph 1 Neraph 1 Raek 1 Naga 2 Bolt thrower 1 Nephilim Bloodseer 1 Typhon
Units: Swordmens+UA Raptors Hex Hunters+UA Hellmouth Blightblades Ice Witch Blackfrost
Solo: Martyr Forsaken Sheperd Warlord Nyss Craelix Anyssa Succubus Sorcerer+Hellion
I know, i know no Ogre! The big boys are on my shopping list for the future, for now i want play without them. Another couple of questions:
1)I have missed some models i need absolutely?
2)Tips for Legions vs Khador (my game partner only has that army)?
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Nov 19, 2018 15:33:10 GMT
Hehe, there's a slight difference from wanting to do everything with the one box.
You really want a second forsaken, but other than that... Maybe a nephilim protector? By no means a musthave but plenty of warlocks like him if you can spare the points.
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 19, 2018 17:18:03 GMT
Ok i have my army, for the moment i have purchased at PP and a second hand army for a very good price. Now i own these models: Warlock: Thag 1,2 Vayl 1,2 Fyanna 2 Lylyth 1,2 Kryssa Warbeast: 3 Heavy with magnets (Carnivean, Ravagore and Scythean) Zuriel Azrael 2 Angelius 2 Seraph 1 Neraph 1 Raek 1 Naga 2 Bolt thrower 1 Nephilim Bloodseer 1 Typhon Units: Swordmens+UA Raptors Hex Hunters+UA Hellmouth Blightblades Ice Witch Blackfrost Solo: Martyr Forsaken Sheperd Warlord Nyss Craelix Anyssa Succubus Sorcerer+Hellion I know, i know no Ogre! The big boys are on my shopping list for the future, for now i want play without them. Another couple of questions: 1)I have missed some models i need absolutely? 2)Tips for Legions vs Khador (my game partner only has that army)? You definitely have a CotD army available. Zuriel, Azreal, the Boltthrowers, Bloodseer, Swordsmen, Raptors, Hex Hunters, Ice Witches, Black Frost Shard, Spell Martyr, Shepherd, Nyss Warlord, Craelix, Anyssa, Succubus, and Sorceress on Hellion all fit within Children of the Dragon. I would recommend playing Thags1 in that theme. He can bring Typhon, meaning you can have 3 character beasts all in one army. Hex Hunters will love Fog of War, and they'll like the bloodseer if you take him. You'll want the shepherd and the spellmartyr with him more than likely, and the succubus is nice to have. Azreal will take to Draconic Blessing well. I would add in a sorceress on hellion, as it will let Azreal, Zuriel, and the Bloodseer all charge for free. All of those models add up to 66 points. To finish it off, I would add in your Ice Witches, and try to grab a couple more shepherds/spell martyrs (2 to be exact). You've got two free cards, one of which should definitely go to Bayal (he's six points). The other you could use to take either Craelix, or the Nyss Warlord. As for fighting Khador, you will threaten farther no matter what. Khador is too slow for you to not threaten farther. You can hug their threat ranges no problem. Your issue is going to be cracking armor. They're tough. In CotD, you're going to have mixed results. Azreal, Zuriel, and Typhon all hit hard, but they're only 3 warbeasts. Hex Hunters aren't going to do much, but with Bayal they can shadow-bind things and potentially buy you an extra turn. If you find that Hex Hunters just don't have their use against Khador, you could swap them out for the swordsmen, which are weapon master, and good at cracking armor. Craelix isn't going to help you too much, unfortunately. The Nyss Warlord will take some stuff down (or at least put a dent in it), as its a weapon master with straight decapitation. Legion doesn't really do attrition too well (though Thagrosh is the best one to do it with), and will utterly fail no matter what against Khador. You're going to need to go for assassination somehow. Alternatively, you could take Fyanna in Oracle of Annihilation and slap all your warbeasts down in an army and call it a day, taking the free models you want (definitely a forsaken and the Sorceress on Hellion). Fyanna + Angellii are great at cracking armor, and against Khador, Fyanna's feat could potentially buy you a second alpha strike. I wish you had two neraphs and one seraph instead of one neraph and two seraphs, but oh well. She will like the Raek and Naga as well.
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