karpfen
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by karpfen on Nov 11, 2018 9:49:11 GMT
Hello all,
so, which beast/jack heavy list/warnoun do you find the most fun and why?
I have very little experience, but here what inspired this question:
By reading a lot, i have noticed people refering to Krueger 2 in Bones and to Zaadesh 2 as fun.
The appeal of Krueger i can see immediately. Telekinesis from himself and geomancy is very flexibel and tricksy.
But what makes Zaadesh2 fun? The countercharges? Apart from that, he seems generic to me. Although, that is to be expected since most nuances of this game are still mysteries to me.^^
So, don't take that as a final judgement and an honest question.
And what about all these things that i did not find mentioned in regards to "fun"?
All the lesser warlocks of minions in one list? The near entirety of Convergence lists? Having a frontline warnoun like Kromac2, Barny2 or Butcher3?
Is Gaspy3 Slayer spam fun?
As is typical, i'm asking this because i need help deciding on a faction and i am drawn to this game by the heavies.
Quite a few factions aren't played in my gaming group. So i cannot observe them in action. And youtube battle reports do not really convey "fun" to me. Not that they should, just explaining.
In hope of funny examples and with kind regards,
Karpfen
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 11, 2018 19:25:26 GMT
If you like heavy warjacks consider Karchev in Khador because he IS a heavy warjack, so you can literally have an army that is 100% heavies, no squishy little humans at all. And he hits hard himself, which can always be fun.
Khador has a few other caster who CAN go pretty jack heavy, even if they aren't as good at it. Strakhov 1 is fun if you like movement tricks; with Andrei 1 at hos side he can send a small number of warjacks a very long way. I don't recommend him as a starting caster though. I think Andrei 2 can be interesting with a bunch of jacks and heavy infantry - he's tricky, which can be a nice change of pace for Khador. Harkevich likes going heavy on the jacks as he does NOTHING for infantry, but I think he's boring to play.
Khador is my faction, but I understand that in Cygnar the Nemos can hand out a lot of focus and buffs. Kraye gives his battlegroup a LOT of advantages, like a 5" reposition for everyone.
I'm not up to date on Hordes right now; back in MkII they were just better for running a lot of heavies, but I think things are more even now across the two systems.
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Post by phyrox on Nov 12, 2018 1:07:54 GMT
I play a few factions, but casually.
Legion has several good candidates for beast-heavy play, but honestly I haven't found this faction "fun" to play this edition*. Opinions will vary. *-with the exception of an almost all-nephilim Thags1 Children of the Dragon list. The +4 ARM made the usually paper beasts into credible tanks, forcing some unexpected piece-trading by the opponent...but the offensive power was just too weak. It was fun though.
Cygnar: I have played Sloan and Darius in very warjack-heavy lists, and have found them both fun to varying degrees. Darius, while I think recognized in the competitive world as not very high tier, has been the most fun on the table for me in this faction. His spells and abilities lead to some fun positioning tricks, and depending on the meta you play in his feat can really give your army a second wind (warjacks with crippled cortex or main arm can ruin the fun factor of a heavy list). If you want to have fun, Darius is a solid choice. If you want to win at competitive events, I can't help ya.
Khador: Several 'jack-heavy options here, but first let me say that Karchev (the warcaster that got me into the faction) does not feel fun. He can run a lot of warjacks, and he can be competitive, but I haven't had a game with him where I felt like I really enjoyed what he was bringing to the table since his feat was weakened. Even in a casual meta countercharge is useful mostly for the threat it represents than actually being triggered. He's not bad, but despite his personal threat and staying power (both of which are significant), he doesn't feel fun. To me.
The list I have had some fun with is Sorscha3 with some MoW and a wall of warjacks. Stoke the Fires (hand out +2sp for each warjack for 1 focus each) really changes the feel of your "slow" heavies, and the flank bonus will surprise you and your opponent with how devastating it can be.
An honorable mention for Vlad1, who makes playing any list fun, and was my preferred caster for warjacks until the latest Sorscha.
Those are lists that I find "fun." They may not be the most competitive, but that's not what everyone is looking for. And again, depending on the group(s) you play with, any list can be a good list if you know how to play it.
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carl
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by carl on Nov 12, 2018 3:58:17 GMT
You may enjoy heavy dominant lists, but I prefer colossal lists. For a while, there was the idea of the triple colossal list, called a Pacific rim type list. With some research, I was startled to discover just how many factions were capable of such things at 75 points.
First there is Retribution, which was the origin of the idea. Essentially any Warcaster with at least 27 wjp could run any combination of colossals with 25 wjp casters being able to take two of the cheaper option and one of the more expensive ones.
Then there is Legion, with 24 and 27 wjp warlocks.
Khador, 28 and 29 point casters.
And POM with 30 pt casters for specific builds.
There were some standout warnouns to my personal thinking, primarily Absylonia1 and Harkevich in theme lists.
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Post by gedditoffme on Nov 12, 2018 7:31:24 GMT
I’ve heard people have fun with absylonia 2 and all the legion heavies. It’s all risk reward with a good alpha and caster who is required to kill things to make the list tick, but generally poor survivability
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Post by Gamingdevil on Nov 12, 2018 8:16:23 GMT
I would like to mention that Asphyxious 3 Slayer spam is not exactly "fun". The list sacrifices a lot of utility and variation in play style for simply spamming the most "efficient" heavy. There are builds with him that focus more on other options over Slayers though and they can definitely be fun.
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Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 12, 2018 8:37:52 GMT
Harkevich in theme lists. I feel like Andy 2 can do a lot of the same things Hark does in a triple colossal list; speed buff, extra shots; not giving out Pathfinder and Repo doesn't matter here, he's mainly just missing the Arm buff. Which is a big deal of course, but he does bring some other tricks, and Open Fire kind of serves as a melee buff too (situational of course). Plus I think he's a better late-game assassin as he can walk through stuff and give himself a knockdown attack. I just think he's a more fun caster than Hark with some overlap in tools. |
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Post by onijet01 on Nov 12, 2018 10:59:55 GMT
Butcher 1 with beserker smams and two ragers
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Post by borderprince on Nov 12, 2018 13:26:26 GMT
And what about all these things that i did not find mentioned in regards to "fun"? All the lesser warlocks of minions in one list? The near entirety of Convergence lists? Having a frontline warnoun like Kromac2, Barny2 or Butcher3? Is Gaspy3 Slayer spam fun? As is typical, i'm asking this because i need help deciding on a faction and i am drawn to this game by the heavies. Quite a few factions aren't played in my gaming group. So i cannot observe them in action. And youtube battle reports do not really convey "fun" to me. Not that they should, just explaining. A lot will depend on what you find enjoying when playing. Different people have different preferences for this.
Like having heavies which can dodge around a bit? Kraye (Cygnar) gives all his heavies a 5" reposition move after they have done their usual move + attack.
Like a single big turn of your models doing lots? Nemo2 maybe.
Want a drawn out grind in melee? Khador jack casters are generally good for this (Karchev, Harkevich, Butcher1).
Independence from your caster? Old Witch2 (Khador), but Rask in Minions would do this with the lesser warlocks too.
Different people will enjoy different things. I don't like relying on a single big turn, for example.
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Post by shicato on Nov 12, 2018 14:07:54 GMT
I play beast heavy in Minions, Trolls and Circle and I definitely think Minions is the way to go if you want to play beast heavy. They have a variety of casters that support a variety of fun builds ranging from Dr Arkadius's assassination from downtown, Rask with all the lessers to Jaga-Jaga spamming Swamp Horrors.
The WWFF theme just really allows you to play a beast heavy list into pretty much any other list barring extreme skews. Personally I love playing the Rask and friends list as there's just so much fun stuff going on in the list. Each lesser pair brings something different to the table and there is always an assassination run on the table if you look for it.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548 
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Post by gordo on Nov 12, 2018 14:22:21 GMT
Xerxes2 in Skorne. I can't come up with a bad list. Everything works. Titan Herd? Drake Spam? Rhino spam? Archidon Spam? Everything works. Throw in some Siege Turtles for extra fun. Plus Xerxes2 himself is great for rushing into infantry lines. And good Lord, Tiberion feels like my answer to everything.
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karpfen
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 3
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Post by karpfen on Nov 12, 2018 20:08:00 GMT
Thank you all for your suggestions. Some Casters there i did not consider before.  And how could i forget about Karchev?!^^ It would seem every factions has some warnouns fitting in that category. Well, there is one theme exactly for that particular thing for everyone ... shicato: cool, that you compared all your played factions. I will look more closely into minions. I am not sure about three gargossals. The sight must indeed be very very cool, but besides the cost, i am unsure about the relatively low mobility. Long leash sounds nice. So many choices ... |
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Post by benjamini on Nov 13, 2018 13:51:28 GMT
I personally get a lot of fun out of running Butcher 3 with Ruin and a bunch of Devastators, maybe a Marauder or two thrown in! I guess the one disclaimer, is that in RPGs, or other games where the term is relevant, I am the guy who gets a kick out of playing the Tank... which probably carries over into why I enjoy this.
I've always liked Devastators (they've been my favourite heavy ever since I learned they existed), and bulldozing my way through things and threatening Rains of Death is also quite fun! It may seem a little simple at first (at least some of what you are doing is holding things in place while Butcher kills things), but it always makes me happy to run.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Nov 16, 2018 19:58:53 GMT
In regards to Zaadesh2, he can be built to present a truly unique playstyle, namely out-of-activation shenanigans. It's battlegroup centric, usually with some variation of Sentries, Soldiers, and Archidons. Derp Turtles can get in on the fun under feat as well.
Your opponent, if they realize what's happening, has to adjust to a changing game state NOT due to their own plans, and it's extremely frustrating and tank inducing.
I personally like the Exalted theme force version with a Titan battlegroup. Between lots of Defensive Strike, Retributive Strike, Counter Charge, and even Death Rage, the potential to kill multiple heavies on THEIR turn is real.
Most competitive? No. Fun? Absolutely.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Nov 17, 2018 3:43:23 GMT
Arkadius or Carver with ALL the Razor Boars can be utterly hilarious. Those little piggies can threaten a long way on the bottom of one with either caster and it'll surprise the hell out of your opponent if nothing else.
For Ret, I used to play a battlegroup heavy list with Rahn (four heavies/two lights) which was pretty nifty... but then, Rahn is always fun...! Oh, you're immune to spells (for whatever reason)... never mind, I'll just TK my entire army forwards...!
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