|
Post by sand20go on Nov 4, 2018 6:36:39 GMT
Seems like we are hitting a rut a bit in our list building. I mean V2 and AC is good and all.....
What are we running that we think right now is fun?
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Nov 4, 2018 7:52:48 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0y71kRkReQ8fdidijy8x7H7I7K7KKhador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Legion of Steel [Butcher 2] Kommander Orsus Zoktavir [+28] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] - Ruin [17] - War Dog [3] Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)] Iron Fang Kovnik [0(4)] Kapitan Sofya Skirova [0(5)] Uhlan Kovnik Markov [7] Iron Fang Pikemen (max) [15] - Iron Fang Pikemen Officer & Standard [4] Iron Fang Uhlans (max) [20] Iron Fang Uhlans (max) [20] It turns out very fun. Feat up with rage token beserkers boosted additional attack iornfangs and its just fast and digs deep.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Nov 4, 2018 9:42:39 GMT
Just pick a non-Vlad2 caster? There's arguably at least 8 other casters who run AC well.
Or do what I used to do:
1) Make a list of your casters (1.1) Remove Harkevich and Zerkova2 from the list to save you some trouble) 2) Roll a die/use a RNG to pick a caster 3) Roll a die/use a RNG to pick a theme 4) Go!
There are a few caveats in that these days; S3 is very much tied to MoWs, for example. But less than you'd think.
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Nov 4, 2018 19:57:06 GMT
I don't think it's getting stale at all. V2 ArmCorp is a good list, but I don't think Khador is solved.
I recently listen to The Meta Podcast with Robert McCormick (team England and writer for Avatar of Slaughter), his lists are way different than what Davies is running, which is very cool to see.
I mean, you yourself started a big thread with the premise that ArmCorp CiD was awesome because of the options it gave Khador. Did that change? Did the SD meta make you change your mind?
|
|
|
Post by mcdermott on Nov 4, 2018 21:42:05 GMT
Needs more ArCorp gunline
|
|
|
Post by habaguero on Nov 5, 2018 3:38:09 GMT
I am thinking about trying Vlad3 in AC, but I can't settle on the list. I am going to start building a couple low costed kit bashed chariots. Hopefully I can start playtesting before the end of the year.
|
|
|
Post by Netherby on Nov 5, 2018 6:22:51 GMT
I have to agree, but it's been kinda stale for a while...
The problem to me is that we have two themes, both of which work best with a Vlad. Even if we swap to other casters, the lists aren't changing that much. Maybe there is more depth to AC lists yet to really be explored (I'm not sure there isn't actually a glass bottom), but it's still an AC list.
I think/hope S0 will open up some more interesting WGK lists and caster options, but yeah...
LegoS is pretty close to being decent, if they fixed the Merc inclusions so you could at least have some coverage of its weaknesses... I don't know that it's particularly fun or interesting for list construction though? I mean you have even less choice of units than Jaws... It's basically Great Bears + As many pikes as can fit + obligatory solos. The only option is if you take Uhlans or not.
Jaws is just meh because the theme benefits don't exist. You could try building some whacky lists around Behemoth and Assassins, I actually think there could be something there with non standard out of the box Jaws. The question though becomes how much you actually get out of the theme. Where do you draw the line and decide maybe the list would be better in WGK or not in theme at all...
I won't touch the last theme, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist.
In summery: You either need to look at out of the box Jaws lists or try to dive deeper into AC lists. I don't know that either will yield good results, but there is definitely innovative stuff to try.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Nov 5, 2018 8:25:41 GMT
It's less stale if you ignore themes. And don't care too much about winning. And ignore most if the good advice you get on the forums. That's what I do anyway!
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Nov 5, 2018 10:16:41 GMT
It's less stale if you ignore themes. And don't care too much about winning. And ignore most if the good advice you get on the forums. That's what I do anyway! As a sort-of corollary to this; it's been my experience that practice with a list is more important than the list itself. So the whole 'don't care about winning' thing becomes moot. Find a list you like and keep practicing and you will win with it. (Within reason!) But if you're looking at 'I want a winning list' here's some list options from Discount Games; all of these have placed at tournaments in the last year. Armoured Corps: Vlad2, Butcher1, Sorscha3 Jaws of the Wolf: Butcher3, Butcher1, Karchev, Old Witch2 Legion of Steel: Irusk1, Irusk2, Old Witch2, Zerkova1, Strakhov2 Winter Guard Kommand: Vlad1, Old Witch2, Karchev, Sorscha1, Butcher3, Irusk2 Wolves of Winter: Vlad2, Old Witch2, Zerkova2 For all that some of them are gimmicky (Z2 assassination list, B1 full Devastators), that's still 13 different casters in 21 different combinations before you take into account any differences in the actual lists. (Admittedly, only WGK and AC actually have much flexibility to them list wise) And that's just a snapshot. Hell, I'm playing I2 AC and Sorscha1 Legion at the moment. It's pretty great. There's an I2 Jaws list running all the Kayazy. So I wouldn't say that it is in any way stale.
|
|
|
Post by Big Fat Troll on Nov 5, 2018 11:25:14 GMT
I played against a list at WMW that I thought was interesting. I don't remember it exactly but it was something like this: conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0fhzkRkRkWkTkTkT8t7Z7Z7-7-7X7W7X7WKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Winter Guard Kommand [Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Berserker [8] - Berserker [8] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich [4] Winter Guard Field Gun Crew [4] Winter Guard Field Gun Crew [4] Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0(5)] Winter Guard Mortar Crew [0(5)] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8] - Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6] So you have a gun line that almost shuts down enemy shooting and cheap jacks that can get upfield to kill whatever the WG can't. And I still think there's probably a good build for her in Jaws. This list needs work but I think there is something to the idea: conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0xhz7wkWkT9vhF7phF7p8r6i868eKhador Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Old Witch 2] Zevanna Agha, the Fate Keeper [+27] - Behemoth [25] - Juggernaut [13] - Marauder [11] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Destroyer [14] Greylord Forge Seer [0(4)] - Destroyer [14] Widowmaker Marksman [0(4)] Alexia Ciannor & the Risen [10] Battle Mechaniks (min) [3] Widowmaker Scouts [8] Regardless, I do think that she's a strong caster and plays not quite like any of the others, so this might be where to look if you want something different.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Nov 5, 2018 17:09:16 GMT
Seems like we are hitting a rut a bit in our list building. I mean V2 and AC is good and all..... What are we running that we think right now is fun? Don’t build lists, then. Just reach into your bag and grab handfuls of models and throw them on the table. It’s like a claw machine....OF FATE! Picked up five Kossites, a Mortar Crew Spotter, a loose Assault Kommando shield arm, and a broken marker? Tough, that’s your unit choice. Quit complaining you crybaby. Warjacks were in a different tray and you didn’t get any? Suck it up, you’re just playing points down this game, that’s all. Problem solved.
|
|
|
Post by sand20go on Nov 5, 2018 23:22:08 GMT
I don't think it's getting stale at all. V2 ArmCorp is a good list, but I don't think Khador is solved. I recently listen to The Meta Podcast with Robert McCormick (team England and writer for Avatar of Slaughter), his lists are way different than what Davies is running, which is very cool to see. I mean, you yourself started a big thread with the premise that ArmCorp CiD was awesome because of the options it gave Khador. Did that change? Did the SD meta make you change your mind? It feels like the SD meta is somewhat list locked into Vlad2/Irusk2. You really have to be able to get rid of cloud walls with three of the players in the meta playing Cruciable and liking Lucas. Otherwise the alpha is just a bit too strong to weather it out. Ditto another player being on a Gore4 run right now. Anti-shooting also useful right now in our meta - as we have some players thinking that double signs and portants is pretty strong ;-)
Now Spriggan helps against but doesn't fully solve this issue given the way that flare works. As long as they don't put a model where you can catch it Spriggan is sad. OW3 helps against the shooting and I need to run her more....though she will be sad against Sprays.
Some of the best "alternatives" (Butcher 1 for example) get into things I don't own (that second unit of bombers for ridiculous output one turn).
I should, however, give Zerkova1 and LOS another run. Challenge is when will I ever find time to build models when I could be riding my Horse around Red Dead Redemption and just staring at how beautiful it is.
|
|
Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
|
Post by Ganso on Nov 6, 2018 1:41:50 GMT
Well, I think there's your answer. Can't do much when the local meta is forcing your list selection.
Though extrapolating things that happen on the Local level to the National/World level is something I've been warning everyone is a bad move since Mk3 started.
|
|
|
Post by Netherby on Nov 6, 2018 7:08:04 GMT
Hmm, but do you really a need a double answer to cloud wall? Like surely OW2 could replace one of the casters or even Z1.
Vlad2 is probably honestly just a bit too good. So it's hard to not run him since any other option feels not as good. But he only runs one type of list, so I guess the message here is if you don't want to run V2 you need to not build his type of list. Look to alternative styles that he wouldn't be good in.
Irusk2 is also kinda nuts, he's probably even more flexible than V2 really. I mean you could run him in 4 of the 5 themes to good effect. So changing up that list to use a different theme could be a good option?
So yeah, your meta has identified the most powerful casters that ALSO have answers for a lot of the dirty tricks.
That said, I don't think you NEED to be able to answer cloud walls. Having the simple answer is nice, but you should be able to play into them without it. You just need to think about how you can use the terrain, scenario and positioning. Honestly having the point and click cloud wall answer is a luxury item.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Nov 6, 2018 8:38:41 GMT
You can actually run Irusk2 in all 5 themes; Kayazy Jaws is a thing.
|
|