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Post by sand20go on Oct 30, 2018 4:40:43 GMT
Now part of this is that I got at a recent raffle (long and something of a sad story) a second unit of Assassins. But I am really warming to the fact that they have anatomical precision (and that with Irusk2 (or with an IF caster) you can give a stealthy unit immunity to blast damage. That means, for example, that you have a good (not great but good) answer to say Halbediers under Morely. Yes yes. He CAN feat and 2 man CRA them to get the odds tilting back. But then you can turn around and use killing stroke to deal with (if you need to) any def skew from Transmutation and then avoid super tough. Anatomical also "solves" Zaal 2 problems and similar arm skews (for instance Gore4 with sentinals. As "no knockdown tough" has made a come back they are a great answer to that. So thoughts? I am thinking that IRusk2 and double Assasins(along with some good old fashioned cheapish Maraduers) feels like it asks a good question. Maybe insert 1-2 units of eliminators for some battlelusted end game fun. Behemoth cause why not. Pair with Vlad2 AC and see what happens. For example, something like conflictchamber.com/#c3201b_-0x797wkTkTkZ9vcfcgcfcgchchKhador Army - 74 / 75 points [Theme] Jaws of the Wolf [Irusk 2] Supreme Kommandant Irusk [+27] - Behemoth [25] - Marauder [11] - Marauder [11] - Rager [10] - Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker [4] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [0(4)] Kayazy Assassins (max) [15] - Kayazy Assassin Underboss [0(4)] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Kayazy Eliminators [5] Might swap out one of the elminators for a badder santas as a focus battery but will require testing. Rager there to help Irusk weather out shooting since he likes to be close for a turn to get the Kayazy in the tough bubble. Thoughts? This feels pretty solid against things that don't have mass desealth.
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Post by CodFather on Oct 30, 2018 6:26:36 GMT
Unfortunately anatomical precision does not work on constructs, so they are ineffective against zaal2 feated immortals.
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Post by michael on Oct 30, 2018 11:23:06 GMT
Kayazy never stopped being good.
Also, Codfather’s right: Anatomical Precision is living models only.
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Post by maxtermynd on Oct 30, 2018 15:11:31 GMT
They're still P+S 12 with Gang, so that plus Battle Lust and a charge or mini feat should get them to ARM 22 killing range.
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Post by michael on Oct 30, 2018 16:13:01 GMT
They're still P+S 12 with Gang, so that plus Battle Lust and a charge or mini feat should get them to ARM 22 killing range. It does. People have been flabbergasted when I have killed their ARM-warped Warpwolves on a minifeat charge with like 6 Kayazy, only 2 of which got into its back arc.
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Post by sand20go on Oct 30, 2018 19:08:47 GMT
I realized this AM that while the immortals give souls and can be "brought back" they don't count as living #causefluff. But as noted, POW 12 battle lusted (and possibly minifeated) will put a serious bite into things.
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Post by Havock on Oct 31, 2018 0:37:59 GMT
Their biggest problems are not their killing power, it's being only average SPD, with a tiny melee range, no innate pathfinder or the sorts and being hard to keep alive or anyone but Irusk2.
I played the Irusk2 Kayazy boat a while back, and while cute and not without succes, the list was slow as shit. Their charge range is only, like, 1,5" longer than our baseline jacks.
If they make anyone cry, it's Retribution Dawnguard lists.
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Post by Netherby on Oct 31, 2018 5:12:51 GMT
So their killing power has never been an issue. We have access to too many buffs that make warrior models kill stuff for them not to be good at killing things... Their mini-feat is trash or "highly situational", which kinda means the same thing.
Okay so what is their problem? Their problem is meta driven by Mk3 design. Essentially that there are just too many things that remove them trivially before they ever get to do anything. You can play them into some factions, once you add blast immunity with decent success. Mercs, Khador, Dawnguard not being run by G4, that's about it actually...
They are just one of the many units that are invalidated by the Mk3 design. Which is any model that has low ARM and average threat range coupled with a high point cost.
For that sort of model to work in Mk3 they either need to be really cheap or have an excessive threat range.
That doesn't mean you can't run them. It just means the match ups where you can play them are pretty limited.
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Post by borderprince on Oct 31, 2018 8:17:46 GMT
Worth mentioning that the Assassins have got better against Cygnar now that it is harder to arc electricity to them. Not impossible, but more difficult. Quite a few Cygnar lists now only have a few models which can deal reasonably well with stealth. On the one or two occasions I've run them recently, they've been decent into Gravediggers, for example, because the list can't shoot enough of them and the Trencher Infantry aren't reliably accurate enough against Assassins in melee. In that kind of situation your own threat range is less important - Duellist means that to some extent you can afford to be charged and then respond.
As for the original list, I always want to try and squeeze a marshalled Destroyer into an Irusk2 Jaws list somewhere. The Forgeseer gives Behemoth the extra focus it needs, Irusk gives the Destroyer FFE. With the marshal bonus, that gives you two fully boosted POW14s and a fully boosted POW14/16 (+ magical + blessed). It's a pretty decent firebase that can start chipping away at tougher models for the rest of the list to finish off. Behemoth + Marauder + Destroyer is bang on 50 points, leaving a fair bit of wiggle room for other things.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Nov 3, 2018 17:55:45 GMT
My buddy is trying out a list with Irusk2, two forge seers, the assassins and the double eliminators. The forge seers are marshalling a destroyer (with FFE) and Behemoth. He two-rounded my Mauler from range without memorable dice, and, in two games, I never managed to chew through the assassins, although they were toughing at almost 50%, by his estimate.
TLDR: The assassins under I2 are a terrific roadblock than just keeps killing things that get stuck on it.
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Post by sand20go on Nov 4, 2018 5:16:47 GMT
I did have some "challenges" with it against High Reclaimer but that is a solid solid list. (he has the Judicator, Full Cav, Errants and I think Basions). Did kill a bunch of stuff but didn't have enough to push through the double signs and portents on the judi.
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Post by michael on Nov 4, 2018 12:39:47 GMT
I did have some "challenges" with it against High Reclaimer but that is a solid solid list. (he has the Judicator, Full Cav, Errants and I think Basions). Did kill a bunch of stuff but didn't have enough to push through the double signs and portents on the judi. Funny, how it was too good to stay on Drago this edition, but not too good to be on the ranged colossal in the faction with by far the most warjack support. : p
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Nov 4, 2018 23:31:16 GMT
I did have some "challenges" with it against High Reclaimer but that is a solid solid list. (he has the Judicator, Full Cav, Errants and I think Basions). Did kill a bunch of stuff but didn't have enough to push through the double signs and portents on the judi. Funny, how it was too good to stay on Drago this edition, but not too good to be on the ranged colossal in the faction with by far the most warjack support. : p Yea, definitely shat the bed with Drago, and then took a second dump by turning a combo that was mostly cute in Khador into a meta bending consideration in Menoth. Who the Firetruck knows?
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Post by Netherby on Nov 5, 2018 6:29:08 GMT
TLDR: The assassins under I2 are a terrific roadblock than just keeps killing things that get stuck on it. I think there is definitely some mostly untapped potential in I2 Jaws in general. But Assassins only form a small part of it. And the Judge Judy needed work, but I don't think increasing its SPD + RNG and adding S&P to all attacks on top of a point decrease was quite the right direction... Unless you wanted to make it auto include in every list and balance the rest of the faction around it being over powered and in every list. Kinda like CoC with the TEP.
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Post by michael on Nov 5, 2018 16:47:35 GMT
I will be 100% fair: Drago with double S&P and Crit Amputate is too good. He can reasonably reliably solo a gargantuan thanks to the crits. But... Grave Wind on an Unstable DEF 11 warjack? Umm... no.
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