bundeez
Junior Strategist
Posts: 325
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Post by bundeez on Oct 24, 2018 17:42:55 GMT
Haha I love your #4 Trollock! so true.. A new light cavalry unit could also be cool. Highwaymen on goats or something. As long as they have spd8, guns and repo5
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Post by Phlushot on Oct 24, 2018 18:16:10 GMT
1) remove the northkin crap from KC. 2) allow all beasts, including dozer (note that dozer sucks with every one except Gunnbjorn, but it is the principal that counts!) 3) KC have lots of unit, all of which are designed to kill low def low arm infantry, and neither of which can stand in melee. Differentiate them so they are meaningfully different. 4) add some mandatory solo or something that every one needs to buy so PP can make sone money off the tine investment in cid. 5) fix the blitzer, dozer, impaler, slag troll. I'm 100% in agreement that Dozer should be a part of KC. And I'm not that sure that having access to Lucky Shot on any caster isn't awesome. The loss of Kill Shot and the boosted blast damage is painful though. Also agreed that the Northkin stuff should be out, although at the same time if I felt that the rest of the models in that theme were equal to the Raiders/Fire Eaters then I might feel different, and I prefer models be available in multiple places so there's less pigeonholing.
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Post by Phlushot on Oct 24, 2018 18:20:17 GMT
During the StoN cid pp said they had no intention of making the pyre trolls animus target warbeast, but they have gone back on their word before. I don't think they drew a line in the sand like they have on other issues but they did say that they weren't looking to change it at that time. And while I agree that the last thing KC needs is more units... Hang gliding Pyg Cav does sound awfully sweet...
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 24, 2018 19:50:18 GMT
1) remove the northkin crap from KC. 2) allow all beasts, including dozer (note that dozer sucks with every one except Gunnbjorn, but it is the principal that counts!) 3) KC have lots of unit, all of which are designed to kill low def low arm infantry, and neither of which can stand in melee. Differentiate them so they are meaningfully different. 4) add some mandatory solo or something that every one needs to buy so PP can make sone money off the tine investment in cid. 5) fix the blitzer, dozer, impaler, slag troll. These are good points. I would miss the Northkin units but frankly, I do think that adding the Hooch Hauler was the wrong move. They should have lifted the warbeast restriction instead. Still, I can see an argument for this if they are just crowding out the other stuff. And yes, those other units could stand to be differentiated a bit further. The point about the solos is just one more reason to go that way.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 24, 2018 20:20:16 GMT
Here's a go at that Ranged Fell Caller:
1) Copy and Paste the Fell Caller Hero. Maybe even name this new one "Range Caller." 2) Replace the second sword with a Hand Cannon or maybe a Carbine. 3) Keep Reveille but replace the Fell Call options with +2 RAT and Artillerist.
And/or the first ever character Pyg! Vet Leader for Pygs, AD, Prowl, Hand Cannon, RAT 6, and cavalry as he is riding a boar. :P he could even have a whelp hanging onto his saddle about to fly off.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Oct 25, 2018 0:26:17 GMT
Honestly I seriously doubt KC will see changes. It's seeing fringe uses in the Grim1 configuration which means it's already ahead of other more dysfunctional factions. +1 to start is incredibly potent, and it can take some really good models, it just struggles with medium-high armor (very common atm) and anti-shooting (also very common ATM). Once either of those aspects leave the meta this theme will open up increasingly.
That said I feel somewhat strongly that D&S should be generically allowed by the theme. And Grim2 could use some love (a couple wbp wouldn't hurt).
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Post by allinontrolls on Oct 25, 2018 5:02:23 GMT
Why is grim2 considered to be so bad in mk3. He was one of our strongest warlocks in mk2 and he did not change. Mortality is still really strong. I understand that kolgrima is really stronger but compared to a lot of our other casters he seems still strong. Or am I missing something?
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Post by grabsnikk on Oct 25, 2018 5:57:34 GMT
Why is grim2 considered to be so bad in mk3. He was one of our strongest warlocks in mk2 and he did not change. Mortality is still really strong. I understand that kolgrima is really stronger but compared to a lot of our other casters he seems still strong. Or am I missing something? Honestly I think it is because the units that he really wants to run are our ranged units which are mostly in Kriel Company and since Kriel Company doesn't see much play he is regarded as bad. Mortality is a great spell but if he fails to hit then he seems to just be flapping in the wind. He does have some utility spells such as Mage Sight and Mirage although they are situational. Pursuit is also not a great spell when you don't have access to an arcnode. I think he could be decent in SoTN with the right build, but since he is widely regarded as not that competitive I don't think that anyone has really experimented with him much in Mk3.
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Post by allinontrolls on Oct 25, 2018 6:13:39 GMT
I will give him a shot in kc. Warwagon and artillery to kd stuff then Mortality + sluggers to kill it seems legit.
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joedj
Junior Strategist
Posts: 513
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Post by joedj on Oct 25, 2018 6:14:04 GMT
Straight up stealth may work for the scouts. Currently they are a small unit of pseudo raiders. Stealth would give Scouts a unique role. Also add Flank [Skinner], and allow Skinner model(s) in KC. = Sell more models!
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 25, 2018 7:55:09 GMT
maybe another solution to the rage problem is to allow the pyre animus to change to "range 6, affects battlegroup models" insteadof self only. And I agree that we need more solo's that affect other models/units (vetran leader X, minus enemy range 5 for ranged attacks etc) Make the scorseror a solo again insteadof attachment, but keep his abilities Update the chronicler's Charge of the trolls: +2 movement for model/unit while charging instead of a dmg buff. Burrowers. I think a redesign is in order here. a increace in range of their gun to 6 or 8 inch and a increase in RAT should be nice I was thinking more like this: The unit is not deployed, but a marker is put down at the AD line. You can move the marker 3 inch per turn OR you can place a single burrower above ground within 6 inches of the marker. No more than 3 burrowrs may be above ground at any time. The burrowers can activate as normal. (you have 10 burrowers to begin with) Mini feat: Burrowers Rush: you may put zero-all burrowers above ground, they have +2 movement on the charge and gang for a turn Were you secretly in the car with us on the way back from the I5 tournament? We discussed exactly that change for the Pyre and how I think that would probably fix the Rage issue and go a long way to fixing KC. Really it would open up a lot of options in the faction in general I think, deciding between the ghetto Rage for 8 points vs the real thing for 15. Hell I'd accept it going back to cost 9 if it got that change. The other change that I do my best to mention every time this topic is started (so once a week give or take) is allow all beasts, change the free solo rule to include beasts with ranged weapons but raise the point requirement to 25 (or more if that's what is needed for balance). Now you get to decide if you want the extra free model or the Mauler (and/or other melee beasts). Really though now that I've thought about the Pyre change I'd prefer that, man what I wouldn't give to be able to skip the obligatory Mauler and spend that 7 points on things like Brawlers. I might even field a Blitzer... the possibilities! Nope i was not in the car. In fact, we are at least 6 hours apart (by plane) And I think the pyre change is a really good one and has some trade offs you will have to make. First of all 1 less dmg output, the +pow does not add to things like strength tests for throws etc. In your list design you really have to take this into account.
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gdnerd
Junior Strategist
Posts: 656
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Post by gdnerd on Oct 25, 2018 8:31:29 GMT
Why is grim2 considered to be so bad in mk3. He was one of our strongest warlocks in mk2 and he did not change. Mortality is still really strong. I understand that kolgrima is really stronger but compared to a lot of our other casters he seems still strong. Or am I missing something? Because he doesn't make PoD gunlines work and it turns out when you run the battle engine spam list Grim1's control is way better than one turn of snipe + mark target plus some mortalitys. Maybe there's a double slugger or highwaymen shell that works but it just hasn't shown up yet.
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ravenfire
Junior Strategist
Me Mulg me SMASSSSSHHHH
Posts: 244
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Post by ravenfire on Oct 25, 2018 12:37:13 GMT
would be nice to see some models/units that can lay down covering fire templates or flare enemy models
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Post by macdaddy on Oct 25, 2018 14:21:32 GMT
Honestly I seriously doubt KC will see changes. It's seeing fringe uses in the Grim1 configuration which means it's already ahead of other more dysfunctional factions. +1 to start is incredibly potent, and it can take some really good models, it just struggles with medium-high armor (very common atm) and anti-shooting (also very common ATM). Once either of those aspects leave the meta this theme will open up increasingly. That said I feel somewhat strongly that D&S should be generically allowed by the theme. And Grim2 could use some love (a couple wbp wouldn't hurt). The theme benefits are fine, but the units within the theme are...lacking. Ignoring LoS, and +1 to start for a Gunline is pretty great. Just not that many models in the theme that work properly.
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Post by Phlushot on Oct 25, 2018 14:44:20 GMT
Honestly I seriously doubt KC will see changes. It's seeing fringe uses in the Grim1 configuration which means it's already ahead of other more dysfunctional factions. +1 to start is incredibly potent, and it can take some really good models, it just struggles with medium-high armor (very common atm) and anti-shooting (also very common ATM). Once either of those aspects leave the meta this theme will open up increasingly. That said I feel somewhat strongly that D&S should be generically allowed by the theme. And Grim2 could use some love (a couple wbp wouldn't hurt). The theme benefits are fine, but the units within the theme are...lacking. Ignoring LoS, and +1 to start for a Gunline is pretty great. Just not that many models in the theme that work properly. Ignoring LoS would be much better if it included the Battle Engines. Access to the War Wagon is a big part of KC's appeal and having that theme benefit not work with it is very annoying to me.
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