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Post by marxlives on Oct 21, 2018 19:10:53 GMT
In my area WMH is on the rebound ever since the release of MK.III rules. Best advice I can give, is if you have a small group don't steamroller to death. Keep it narrative, keep it lose, leverage other rulesets orbiting WMH, and most importantly keep playing.
If you build it, they will come.
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Post by beardmonk on Oct 22, 2018 7:45:47 GMT
In my area WMH is on the rebound ever since the release of MK.III rules. Best advice I can give, is if you have a small group don't steamroller to death. Keep it narrative, keep it lose, leverage other rulesets orbiting WMH, and most importantly keep playing. If you build it, they will come. The WM/H community has really picked up where I am in the UK back to levels from Mk2. New player coming into the mix and old player returning. I get what you say about not making every game a SR comp. There are many other great formats that PP have put out over the years but the thing that is more important than that imo is the attitude of your group. You can lay SR format in a relaxed friendly manner, whilst having a cup of tea (or something stronger), having banter and enjoying yourself. Basically, don’t be a dick to each other and be friendly. WM/H biggest drawback is the opinion that many of the wargaming community hold is that we are unfriendly and unwelcoming to new players |
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moquan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 193
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Post by moquan on Oct 22, 2018 9:38:05 GMT
WMH is one of the most relaxed tabletop communities I've encountered over the years. Also at tournaments. That other miniature game always had at least one dock, but not here.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310 
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Post by crow on Oct 22, 2018 10:50:00 GMT
It took just over a year, but we went from a steam roller only group (essentially) to now having two groups. One that does one day and does steamroller, and the other that does more learning, casual games. It's taken a lot of patience, but man has it been worth it!
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Oct 22, 2018 18:02:28 GMT
WM/H biggest drawback is the opinion that many of the wargaming community hold is that we are unfriendly and unwelcoming to new players My experience is that the WM/H community is a very welcoming bunch, but the depth of the game itself is usually too much for newer players that just want to roll dice. |
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Oct 22, 2018 18:23:22 GMT
The folks doing warmahordes seem just as friendly as most other gamers. Havent heard any complaints about that around in this meta.
The money you now need to start and the knowledge barrier for new players are however greater than ever. And what usually scare of new players around here.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Oct 22, 2018 19:40:45 GMT
I think there are two sides to the WMH community.
On the one hand, yeah, generally the WMH community is generally pretty good. You can leave your army on a tray at a convention and not have to worry about things getting stolen; you can’t do that with a deck of magic cards. People buy each other beers and laugh together. In a lot of ways like that, it is a very good community.
That said, there are some issues. It feels like the game is closing in and becoming overly centered on standard competitive play only. The Warmachine internet is so negative that the general impression that people get is that even the players hate this game; I unsubscribed from Muse on Minis recently because most of the podcasts were making me not like the game. There is a weird cult of internet micro-celebrities and unwritten rules that is hard to navigate. Finally, there often isn’t much there for hobby gamers — the typical WMH tournament has flat terrain, lots of bare metal and plastic, and nothing to celebrate or reward painting.
I don’t think we can ignore the fact that a lot of people don’t play because they had negative experiences with the community. Personally, I moved about a year after starting playing, and found one of the game stores I visited a couple times after moving to be the opposite of friendly and welcoming. I know multiple people who used to play and no longer play any more because they feel unable to keep up with hardcore competitive play or don’t want to deal with certain people and attitudes.
Yes, one of the weaknesses of the game is that it can be hard to start out, but we don’t have to make it harder and then say that anyone who does leave just can’t handle a real game like chess or Warmachine and play checkers or 40K
All this isn’t to say that the Warmachine community is bad, but that there is a risk of it becoming narrow and insular — and the people on the inside are the least likely to notice until it’s too late.
In some ways, 95% of the time, the Warmachine community is great, but it only takes 5% to ruin your day.
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cain
Junior Strategist
Posts: 243
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Post by cain on Oct 22, 2018 20:48:41 GMT
Well being friendly and competetive Isnt conflicting. In our meta the warmahordes people are super friendly nice guys, but they do focus on tournaments, steamrollers, the latest metalists etc.
It may be different over in USA. But here in my part of europe. Warmahordes has always attracted the competetive crowd. People who are into painting/conversions, fluff, or more relaxed play, are leaning more towards 40k, AOS, infinity or others. The new generations seems to want something more faster like xwing.
2D terrain is the same. Its used everywhere here. Because to most players Its more important to move correct/easy in their steamroller games, than it looks cool.
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pmark
Demo Gamer
Posts: 17
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Post by pmark on Oct 23, 2018 1:34:03 GMT
Well being friendly and competetive Isnt conflicting. In our meta the warmahordes people are super friendly nice guys, but they do focus on tournaments, steamrollers, the latest metalists etc. It may be different over in USA. But here in my part of europe. Warmahordes has always attracted the competetive crowd. People who are into painting/conversions, fluff, or more relaxed play, are leaning more towards 40k, AOS, infinity or others. The new generations seems to want something more faster like xwing. 2D terrain is the same. Its used everywhere here. Because to most players Its more important to move correct/easy in their steamroller games, than it looks cool. More or less my experiences. It's not that the people playing WM/H in the local meta aren't nice. It's that most of them play SR all the time, with minimal terrain, with tournament lists, mostly actually practicing for a tournament. You might get a relaxed, casual game out of them sometimes, but mostly, it's about tourneys. I think that's a bigger deterrent than anything and it also makes the more relaxed folks leaving the game.
Funniest part, I don't think it's even PP's fault. They always published more narrative-centered leagues and event rules, you can score points by painting in those or journeyman, they are advocating for plentiful and good-looking terrain everywhere and other things too.
It's just, due to its tight rules and crazy combos, the game attracted the competitive crowd, who dominated the local and international metas and pushed out everyone else, inadvertently.
I do think, that should change, for the long-term healthiness of the game, otherwise, it'll be the ever-shrinking stable of competitive players, with very minimal influx, which would led to the game's demise, eventually, as yes, the more casual players are choosing the myriad other games out there, which communities are more relaxed (and the games are more cost-effective).
Basically, just don't expect everyone to wanting to be a competitive player and don't push them for that direction. Just let them play relaxed games and if you want to focus on "serious" games, then do that, but accept that not everyone wants to.
At least that's my oppinion. I'm currently returning to the game, after a long hiatus, though I followed things, just couldn't play, for life reasons. I'm planning to visit the local meta and play games with people over there, but first and formeost, I want to build an alternative, less tournament-focused meta for me and my friends and all those people, who loved WM/H back then, but just fell out, due to the direction the meta went, because yes, the attitude was the reason most of them brought up, most of the time, not actual problems with the game itself.
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crow
Junior Strategist
Posts: 310
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Post by crow on Oct 23, 2018 10:29:41 GMT
More or less my experiences. It's not that the people playing WM/H in the local meta aren't nice. It's that most of them play SR all the time, with minimal terrain, with tournament lists, mostly actually practicing for a tournament. You might get a relaxed, casual game out of them sometimes, but mostly, it's about tourneys. I think that's a bigger deterrent than anything and it also makes the more relaxed folks leaving the game.
Funniest part, I don't think it's even PP's fault. They always published more narrative-centered leagues and event rules, you can score points by painting in those or journeyman, they are advocating for plentiful and good-looking terrain everywhere and other things too.
It's just, due to its tight rules and crazy combos, the game attracted the competitive crowd, who dominated the local and international metas and pushed out everyone else, inadvertently. I do think, that should change, for the long-term healthiness of the game, otherwise, it'll be the ever-shrinking stable of competitive players, with very minimal influx, which would led to the game's demise, eventually, as yes, the more casual players are choosing the myriad other games out there, which communities are more relaxed (and the games are more cost-effective).
Basically, just don't expect everyone to wanting to be a competitive player and don't push them for that direction. Just let them play relaxed games and if you want to focus on "serious" games, then do that, but accept that not everyone wants to.
At least that's my oppinion. I'm currently returning to the game, after a long hiatus, though I followed things, just couldn't play, for life reasons. I'm planning to visit the local meta and play games with people over there, but first and formeost, I want to build an alternative, less tournament-focused meta for me and my friends and all those people, who loved WM/H back then, but just fell out, due to the direction the meta went, because yes, the attitude was the reason most of them brought up, most of the time, not actual problems with the game itself.
From what I've personally witnessed this is totally true. I watched my local meta for that year as about 5-10 new players would show up, only to never be seen again simply because they we just overwhelmed by the rules, the tournament style lists, and the HEAVY focus on precise steam roller play. When I started the second gaming group I made sure to try and focus on less competitive games, as well as taking the time to teach from battle box to 50 points in a slow grow manner. I bought extra battle boxes and encouraged people to give it a try for free. Once people tried the game (learning only the basics of attacking and moving) they wanted to learn more. From there I taught feats, spells and abilities and basic things like charging. Then I tried to stress model interaction. Many of them are still learning, but have already said it was the slow grow method of learning that attracted them to the game. We also haven't gotten to theme forces and play at the 50 point level. It's enough that as a veteran, I can still play some of my bigger shinier models, while at the same time we don't really have to worry about what "the most competitive" list is. As just an FYI part to the story, I have introduced 9 new people to the game since going about it this way. The biggest thing is as players we have to take time and focus not only on Steam Roller, but playing games at the pace of those that are learning too. |
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Post by marxlives on Oct 31, 2018 20:01:41 GMT
In my area WMH is on the rebound ever since the release of MK.III rules. Best advice I can give, is if you have a small group don't steamroller to death. Keep it narrative, keep it lose, leverage other rulesets orbiting WMH, and most importantly keep playing. If you build it, they will come. The WM/H community has really picked up where I am in the UK back to levels from Mk2. New player coming into the mix and old player returning. I get what you say about not making every game a SR comp. There are many other great formats that PP have put out over the years but the thing that is more important than that imo is the attitude of your group. You can lay SR format in a relaxed friendly manner, whilst having a cup of tea (or something stronger), having banter and enjoying yourself. Basically, don’t be a dick to each other and be friendly. WM/H biggest drawback is the opinion that many of the wargaming community hold is that we are unfriendly and unwelcoming to new players True, the biggest issue in our information age is negativity. You can find your group just hitting a slump or even doing great and it can "feel" like the game is collapsing as a whole. The fact that there are people out there who waste hours of their lives to comment on a game they have never played or did a demo game 10 years go is beyond me, but it does happen. So keep your group loose and fluid and most importantly have fun. If you provide a space, people will come to it eventually. After all we are playing the 3rd most selling tabletop wargame in the industry. icv2.com/articles/markets/view/41010/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2018 |
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