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Post by borderprince on Oct 22, 2018 15:12:52 GMT
Mehh.... Whether she calls herself queen, or not doesn't really matter. Ashlynn has made clear that there aren't any worthy candidates for the throne, since her definition of "worthy" basically requires being part of the Resistance. So she's basically setting herself up to rule. See Oliver Cromwell for historical details. Which is a gross over-simplification of Cromwell's activities and activities, unless you take the tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist view that all of his public actions from about 1647 to March(ish) 1653 were in fact a smoke-screen to hide his true intentions.
With Ashlynn we just don't know. It is really unclear what the Resistance is in fact fighting for (we know what they are fighting against), and it may be that its members (perhaps including Ashlynn) don't really know. They probably haven't had much chance to discuss the issue, given the exigencies of their situation. That might in fact be a decent parallel to the English situation in the late-1640s and early-1650s.
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skormedlover87
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 22, 2018 17:52:32 GMT
If I'm over-simplifying the matter it's because the matter is a question of fluff lore that hasn't yet been fleshed out. And given that Privateer PRESS isn't releasing books, magazine articles, or any significant lore going forward my imagination is just as valid as anyone else's. We're kinda stuck with what we've currently got until/unless pp takes a 180.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
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Post by Xintas on Oct 24, 2018 13:30:28 GMT
If I'm over-simplifying the matter it's because the matter is a question of fluff lore that hasn't yet been fleshed out. And given that Privateer PRESS isn't releasing books, magazine articles, or any significant lore going forward my imagination is just as valid as anyone else's. We're kinda stuck with what we've currently got until/unless pp takes a 180. Maybe just my interpretation, but I thought he was saying that your comment was oversimplifying the events concerning Cromwell in real life, rather than the admittedly light fluff.
I think your interpretation of the fluff is still very plausible. I don't like it personally, because I want good honest "warrior of justice" Ashlynn rather than revolutionary-cum-despot Ashlynn, but I don't get a vote.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 24, 2018 14:53:34 GMT
If I'm over-simplifying the matter it's because the matter is a question of fluff lore that hasn't yet been fleshed out. And given that Privateer PRESS isn't releasing books, magazine articles, or any significant lore going forward my imagination is just as valid as anyone else's. We're kinda stuck with what we've currently got until/unless pp takes a 180. Maybe just my interpretation, but I thought he was saying that your comment was oversimplifying the events concerning Cromwell in real life, rather than the admittedly light fluff.
I think your interpretation of the fluff is still very plausible. I don't like it personally, because I want good honest "warrior of justice" Ashlynn rather than revolutionary-cum-despot Ashlynn, but I don't get a vote.
Fair enough. The English civil war isn't one of my strong suits when discussing historical topics. And most of what I do know is based on Charles1, not the Lord Protector. Though as a broad base I have a vast amount of historical knowledge. Also, on my first read through your comment, I read depot instead of despot. Changed the whole flavor of the post! |
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Xintas
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Post by Xintas on Oct 24, 2018 15:56:10 GMT
Haha, I'm right there with you. Degree in history, but have very limited knowledge on that timeframe. Wasn't my focus.
Also, that's a whole different kind of board. I can't imagine anyone interested in anything like that >.>
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Oct 24, 2018 17:07:02 GMT
Haha, I'm right there with you. Degree in history, but have very limited knowledge on that timeframe. Wasn't my focus. Also, that's a whole different kind of board. I can't imagine anyone interested in anything like that >.> Hey now! I listen to Revolutions podcast....... |
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Post by gobber on Oct 25, 2018 0:04:59 GMT
If I'm over-simplifying the matter it's because the matter is a question of fluff lore that hasn't yet been fleshed out. And given that Privateer PRESS isn't releasing books, magazine articles, or any significant lore going forward my imagination is just as valid as anyone else's. We're kinda stuck with what we've currently got until/unless pp takes a 180. Maybe just my interpretation, but I thought he was saying that your comment was oversimplifying the events concerning Cromwell in real life, rather than the admittedly light fluff.
I think your interpretation of the fluff is still very plausible. I don't like it personally, because I want good honest "warrior of justice" Ashlynn rather than revolutionary-cum-despot Ashlynn, but I don't get a vote. I see her a slightly more complicated than a warrior of justice (she's a revolutionary leader willing to make tough sacrifices) but definitely wouldn't be surprised to see her take power once all is through. Even if she's well-meaning, I'd be surprised if that goes well... Whether or not she ends up leading free Llael, I do hope they continue down the path AOW2:aftershock laid out. I'd love to see full-faction Ord, partisan Magnus3 continuing Cygnar's darker path, and Merc Stryker4 fighting for Llael. And if I really start wishlisting... Vlad objected to and refused to participate in Irusk & Vanar's wholesale slaughter of Khardic/Umbrean/Llaelese citizens. Keep driving that wedge and we could have Vlad4 leading an Umbrean Rebellion, allied with Ord/CG and free Llael against Khador (which at that point could potentially ally with Cygnar/Protectorate)... |
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Post by novaspike on Oct 26, 2018 15:45:01 GMT
Thinking about it a little bit, I wonder if all these political maneuvers are going to be disrupted in a big way soon because of the Infernals.
We know that old witch let the grymkin go to try and disrupt them, but with Infernals being an actual faction soon, fluff-wise that implies a much larger scale of action then we've seen from them before.
They could be the next big thing to force down hostilities between the human factions. Or they could have them be kind of like Legion, a big enough player to have a full on army and agenda, but no one really knows the full scale of their forces outside of us.
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skormedlover87
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 26, 2018 22:35:24 GMT
Thinking about it a little bit, I wonder if all these political maneuvers are going to be disrupted in a big way soon because of the Infernals. We know that old witch let the grymkin go to try and disrupt them, but with Infernals being an actual faction soon, fluff-wise that implies a much larger scale of action then we've seen from them before. They could be the next big thing to force down hostilities between the human factions. Or they could have them be kind of like Legion, a big enough player to have a full on army and agenda, but no one really knows the full scale of their forces outside of us. Or they could be like Skorne, a force so vast it threatens the very existence of the Iron Kingdoms! But not really, cause if they ever win or make discernable headway whole factions start to dissapear, and that's just not good for sales. So instead we're 90's cartoon Cobra. A real threat, but defeated in 22 minutes. |
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Post by greytemplar on Oct 27, 2018 0:14:13 GMT
Thinking about it a little bit, I wonder if all these political maneuvers are going to be disrupted in a big way soon because of the Infernals. We know that old witch let the grymkin go to try and disrupt them, but with Infernals being an actual faction soon, fluff-wise that implies a much larger scale of action then we've seen from them before. They could be the next big thing to force down hostilities between the human factions. Or they could have them be kind of like Legion, a big enough player to have a full on army and agenda, but no one really knows the full scale of their forces outside of us. Or they could be like Skorne, a force so vast it threatens the very existence of the Iron Kingdoms! But not really, cause if they ever win or make discernable headway whole factions start to dissapear, and that's just not good for sales. So instead we're 90's cartoon Cobra. A real threat, but defeated in 22 minutes. Well the Skorne are limited because their supply line for reinforcements is literally through a desert that is under the effect of a never ending magical thunderstorm which is bifurcated by a chasm that was made when the continent literally got cracked in half. Plus the Skorne Empire has a lot of infighting among themselves which limits their effectiveness at managing a war on the other end of a continent. Their technology is also behind that of the areas they are invading. |
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skormedlover87
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 27, 2018 0:51:58 GMT
Or they could be like Skorne, a force so vast it threatens the very existence of the Iron Kingdoms! But not really, cause if they ever win or make discernable headway whole factions start to dissapear, and that's just not good for sales. So instead we're 90's cartoon Cobra. A real threat, but defeated in 22 minutes. Well the Skorne are limited because their supply line for reinforcements is literally through a desert that is under the effect of a never ending magical thunderstorm which is bifurcated by a chasm that was made when the continent literally got cracked in half. Plus the Skorne Empire has a lot of infighting among themselves which limits their effectiveness at managing a war on the other end of a continent. Their technology is also behind that of the areas they are invading. This is largely false. While the empire relies on it's traditional territories for new soldiers and some of it's warbeasts, the Western Reaches are otherwise self sufficient. Areas that were considered marginal by humans are equal in agricultural productivity to the richest plots in the Skorne homeland. Plus they've massively fortified their new holdings and the route between the traditional territories and the new. Also, Mortitheurgy plus the natural Skorne endurance means the crossing, near suicidal for most races, has become routine. Losses are minimal and have more to do with roving bands than the harshness of the environs. |
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Post by greytemplar on Oct 28, 2018 4:36:02 GMT
Well the Skorne are limited because their supply line for reinforcements is literally through a desert that is under the effect of a never ending magical thunderstorm which is bifurcated by a chasm that was made when the continent literally got cracked in half. Plus the Skorne Empire has a lot of infighting among themselves which limits their effectiveness at managing a war on the other end of a continent. Their technology is also behind that of the areas they are invading. This is largely false. While the empire relies on it's traditional territories for new soldiers and some of it's warbeasts, the Western Reaches are otherwise self sufficient. Areas that were considered marginal by humans are equal in agricultural productivity to the richest plots in the Skorne homeland. Plus they've massively fortified their new holdings and the route between the traditional territories and the new. Also, Mortitheurgy plus the natural Skorne endurance means the crossing, near suicidal for most races, has become routine. Losses are minimal and have more to do with roving bands than the harshness of the environs. Even with only nominal losses to the crossing, the distance and how narrow the passages are the bigger limiting factor. There is simply a maximum to how much material and manpower they can send. And while they are self-sufficent in terms of food production, they would still need to bring new soldiers across the chasm since the Western Reaches won't be a significant source of new soldiers yet simply because not enough time has passed.
They definitely have a solid hold on the region, but they still cannot leverage the full might of the empire because they are metaphorically, and literally, bottle-necked.
If there wasn't a continent spanning basically bottomless hole in the ground they had to cross they would most definitely curb-stomp the Iron Kingdoms with sheer numbers. My point was that they can't because they can only bring so much power to bear at once.
They might not need to import food, but new soldiers, warbeasts, weapons, etc... will all have to be transported across some very narrow passages and a road that is many thousands of kilometers long. If your hose is narrow, there is a limit to how much water you can send through it at once. It doesn't matter how much water you have to send through it.
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 28, 2018 6:57:55 GMT
They definitely have a solid hold on the region, but they still cannot leverage the full might of the empire because they are metaphorically, and literally, bottle-necked. If there wasn't a continent spanning basically bottomless hole in the ground they had to cross they would most definitely curb-stomp the Iron Kingdoms with sheer numbers. My point was that they can't because they can only bring so much power to bear at once.
They might not need to import food, but new soldiers, warbeasts, weapons, etc... will all have to be transported across some very narrow passages and a road that is many thousands of kilometers long. If your hose is narrow, there is a limit to how much water you can send through it at once. It doesn't matter how much water you have to send through it.
You should remember that Vitner also prepared them to invade Western Immoren. Makeda took all the lessons Vitner provided and then made them her own. That "bottleneck" has been used for quite some time now, and made efficient by regular use. The only real bottleneck is the bridge itself, but it is still being used as efficiently as possible. Warbeasts, particularly Titans, are being raised in the Bloodstone even as Madrak and Gunnbjorn were moving to the east.
I wouldn't say that the Skorne could dominate by pure numbers alone, though, Their numbers possess a rather unique level of quality that is probably only matched in training by either of the elven forces. One should also consider that before Vitner, they had nothing to do but fight each other, and since Vitner there is an underground against such unification (though, being very subtle about it so Morghoul doesn't find out) which makes them very efficient in a fight. I don't think their numbers could seriously match the Protectorate, Cygnar, or Khador, but they would outnumber the rest of the Hordes factions.
Also consider that their mortitheurgy and extoller efforts (extolism?) can make their casualty lists less of an issue than they would in human or elven armies. only the necromancer efforts of Cryx, the natural resilience of the Trollbloods, and Everblight's direct involvements allow them to keep up in that area.
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skormedlover87
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Post by skormedlover87 on Oct 28, 2018 18:40:58 GMT
Realistically, the biggest problems for the Skorne have been
1) the battle where Vinter betrayed the Skorne. Casualties were so high the Skorne forces still haven't recovered.
2) infighting. Example is when Rasheth came west there was a full fledged Titan breeding program. Rasheth secretly poisoned the Titans so he could insert himself and his sizeable Titan stocks into the Army of the West
3) they keep getting boned by things that they have no reasonable defense against. Dragons, Gods, earthquakes caused by one or both.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
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Post by boozy on Oct 28, 2018 21:49:39 GMT
Haha, I'm right there with you. Degree in history, but have very limited knowledge on that timeframe. Wasn't my focus. Also, that's a whole different kind of board. I can't imagine anyone interested in anything like that >.> Every iteration of nerd-dom (awesomeness?) is found here. I just found out Jon Iadarola from TYT at a minimum paints Grymkin, maybe even plays. |
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