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Post by harrism on Oct 15, 2018 21:23:58 GMT
I'm looking at the pirates list and yes 9/10 times they're better in irregulars but aside from that: are pirates a viable list?
Having only read through the cards and nothing else I threw together this:
Mercenary Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Talion Charter
[Shae 1] Captain Phinneus Shae [+28] - Galleon [39] Bloody Bradigan [3] Bosun Grogspar [0(4)] Doc Killingsworth [0(4)] First Mate Hawk [0(4)] Lord Rockbottom [0(4)] Press Gangers (max) [12] Sea Dog Pirates (max) [13] - Mr. Walls, the Quartermaster [4] - Sea Dog Pirate Rifleman (3) [6] Sea Dog Pirates (max) [13] - Sea Dog Pirate Rifleman (3) [6] The Commodore Cannon & Crew [7]
Seems interesting enough and a 16 1/2" threat on feat turn for the main unit seems pretty dam good! I get it that dealing damage isn't going to be brilliant but with that massive threat range and the commodore canon can you pin stuff back with 4+ tough, no knock down pirates and get a scenario win?
As I said I've never played pirates before, it's more that I just really want them to be good!
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Oct 16, 2018 0:15:10 GMT
if they hav guns, you toast. if they have medium base infantry spam, u gots a shot if u can keep hawk alive. phantassm goes on her. also double pg would work better than double pirates
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Post by gobber on Oct 16, 2018 2:01:39 GMT
Short answer: they’re not very good...
Press gangers are great, no complaints there. Sea dog crew though end up costing 19-23 points before their support solos and just can’t handle armor while dying to a slight breeze. The steadysupertough combo you’re hoping for is great on paper, but doc (or whatever solo is critical to your plans) rather quickly ends up dying to whatever random guns or spells your opponent brought (the relative lack of shield guards in theme doesn’t help). Since the sea dogs aren’t naturally tough, they need to sacrifice overtake/money shot to even benefit from the defensive auras. The cost comparison between the 23 point unit and two units of pressgangers for 24 is hard to overcome.
Galleon is just a bit overpriced (and lacking for any support in this list); Soles has said he’s campaigning internally for it to get included in the steelhead CID.
Bradigan’s awesome though not at all necessary. Not a fan of Bosun as you’ve got to stop the support bloat somewhere. Hawk’s decent but given the opportunity I invariably go for ragman instead, especially in a galleon list. Rockbottom+Commodore are solid. I like doc a lot with gorten+double pressgangers. I’m not sure any of them are essential as containing support costs is critical; doc and rockbottom are the only ones that make my irregulars lists and even then not always even if i’m bringing some pirates.
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Post by mcdermott on Nov 11, 2018 21:38:21 GMT
Short answer: they’re not very good... Press gangers are great, no complaints there. Sea dog crew though end up costing 19-23 points before their support solos and just can’t handle armor while dying to a slight breeze. The steadysupertough combo you’re hoping for is great on paper, but doc (or whatever solo is critical to your plans) rather quickly ends up dying to whatever random guns or spells your opponent brought (the relative lack of shield guards in theme doesn’t help). Since the sea dogs aren’t naturally tough, they need to sacrifice overtake/money shot to even benefit from the defensive auras. The cost comparison between the 23 point unit and two units of pressgangers for 24 is hard to overcome. Galleon is just a bit overpriced (and lacking for any support in this list); Soles has said he’s campaigning internally for it to get included in the steelhead CID. Bradigan’s awesome though not at all necessary. Not a fan of Bosun as you’ve got to stop the support bloat somewhere. Hawk’s decent but given the opportunity I invariably go for ragman instead, especially in a galleon list. Rockbottom+Commodore are solid. I like doc a lot with gorten+double pressgangers. I’m not sure any of them are essential as containing support costs is critical; doc and rockbottom are the only ones that make my irregulars lists and even then not always even if i’m bringing some pirates. Making the solos have tactician or Elite Cadre would go a long way to making pirates a thing.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 11, 2018 23:12:09 GMT
Short answer: they’re not very good... Press gangers are great, no complaints there. Sea dog crew though end up costing 19-23 points before their support solos and just can’t handle armor while dying to a slight breeze. The steadysupertough combo you’re hoping for is great on paper, but doc (or whatever solo is critical to your plans) rather quickly ends up dying to whatever random guns or spells your opponent brought (the relative lack of shield guards in theme doesn’t help). Since the sea dogs aren’t naturally tough, they need to sacrifice overtake/money shot to even benefit from the defensive auras. The cost comparison between the 23 point unit and two units of pressgangers for 24 is hard to overcome. Galleon is just a bit overpriced (and lacking for any support in this list); Soles has said he’s campaigning internally for it to get included in the steelhead CID. Bradigan’s awesome though not at all necessary. Not a fan of Bosun as you’ve got to stop the support bloat somewhere. Hawk’s decent but given the opportunity I invariably go for ragman instead, especially in a galleon list. Rockbottom+Commodore are solid. I like doc a lot with gorten+double pressgangers. I’m not sure any of them are essential as containing support costs is critical; doc and rockbottom are the only ones that make my irregulars lists and even then not always even if i’m bringing some pirates. Making the solos have tactician or Elite Cadre would go a long way to making pirates a thing. True, but then they still rely on easily removeable solos with small command ranges. Also none of them hit all that hard. Except their jacks of course
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Post by gedditoffme on Nov 12, 2018 7:38:44 GMT
Short answer no Long answer nooooooo
People say they’re ok in irregulars but not privateers, I am not sure what they’re saying. Bart and Fiona are ok in that they are occasionally taken in a “will it work “ style list, Shae is occasionally taken in a full meme list. Commodore cannon is great, but only as good as the casters. Some jacks that are accidentally privateers (galleon) are taken occasionally but not in anything too amazing. Press gangers are anecdotally used but again I don’t remember the last time.
That leaves aiyana and holt: king and queen of the pirate horde as an incidental support piece.
Pirates as a whole are in a pretty bad place, speaking as someone who has most of them. Admittedly only played a bit of Bart galleon in early mk3, which was fun at the time but solved now (blessed and weaponmasters too widespread)
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psyllus
Junior Strategist
Posts: 119
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Post by psyllus on Nov 14, 2018 22:42:44 GMT
Press gangers are anecdotally used but again I don’t remember the last time. Pressgangers are a staple of Gorten infantry lists these days.
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 15, 2018 1:24:02 GMT
Press gangers are anecdotally used but again I don’t remember the last time. Pressgangers are a staple of Gorten infantry lists these days. With that spicy Bosun rocket jump tech no less.
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Post by jagius021 on Nov 15, 2018 14:51:19 GMT
I use pressgangers in a lot of lists when I can, I appreciate their ability to get in the way, occasionally recur, and advanced deploy headaches. Run em in Fiona and the lass never dies. Run em under macbain and you'll get good mileage. Crosse likes cheap fodder to turn into shield guards and hey, they can even recur themselves. I will also use them in cygnar and cryx from time to time.
Regular pirates.... Nooo. Not yet. Cid will save them... Eventually
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sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
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Post by sorokin on Nov 16, 2018 11:11:26 GMT
Press Gangers are fine, dey did nuffin rong!
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