|
Post by danfromchicago on Nov 11, 2018 18:57:02 GMT
One of the major differences, IMO, between Prospero and other character Juniors is that he is a support piece to models not in his battlegroup. And a passive one with Vet Leader as well. The new Zeroes are pretty much playing outside of their mini-battlegroup as well. Though not quite this passively.
Well, I didn't think about Eye of Menoth when I was writing this post. But then preSevvy is kinda busted
|
|
|
CG Modues
Jan 23, 2019 14:46:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by jagius021 on Jan 23, 2019 14:46:34 GMT
Skorne really enjoys Raider/Shaman for hunting solos. Trading a light for prospero on a vulcan is a trade I'd make every time. Hell, I trade a light into prospero with even a Retaliator on him haha. I would not put a Vulcan on him unless the entire list we're tailored to work around and protect that module. In which case it's not 42 points, it's 52 for vanguard, 59 with cloud wall.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jan 23, 2019 19:36:41 GMT
Skorne really enjoys Raider/Shaman for hunting solos. Trading a light for prospero on a vulcan is a trade I'd make every time. Hell, I trade a light into prospero with even a Retaliator on him haha. I would not put a Vulcan on him unless the entire list we're tailored to work around and protect that module. In which case it's not 42 points, it's 52 for vanguard, 59 with cloud wall. How are you killing Prospero with a Raider or a Shaman? Assuming that they get range and (for the Raider) LOS, we are talking about a single boosted POW12 or POW13. Your dice minus 3 or 4 damage roll is going to do between 1 and 3 damage after to Prospero after overboost; Prospero has 8 boxes. It would take several of those shots to have any reasonable chance of killing Prospero through camp. Also, bringing a Vanguard in your list (which can help protect Prospero) is not bringing a 52 point module, it is building a good lis. The Vanguard does work and can protect way more than just Prospero.
|
|
|
CG Modues
Jan 23, 2019 21:15:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by jagius021 on Jan 23, 2019 21:15:42 GMT
The old adage of "boosted pow 12s kill warcasters" is unfortunately still true for juniors. Worse, your opponent might have ways of making it worse for you, like rasheth feat. And yes, a vanguard does do work, I love them, but commitment of them into such a key piece is committing them to the cost of the module.
|
|
|
Post by Korianneder on Jan 23, 2019 23:56:56 GMT
The old adage of "boosted pow 12s kill warcasters" is unfortunately still true for juniors. Worse, your opponent might have ways of making it worse for you, like rasheth feat. And yes, a vanguard does do work, I love them, but commitment of them into such a key piece is committing them to the cost of the module. How dare my shield guard model shield guards shots against key solos. What a waste.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jan 24, 2019 0:00:10 GMT
The old adage of "boosted pow 12s kill warcasters" is unfortunately still true for juniors. Worse, your opponent might have ways of making it worse for you, like rasheth feat. And yes, a vanguard does do work, I love them, but commitment of them into such a key piece is committing them to the cost of the module. The adage "POW12's kills casters" refers to more than one POW12, and it is incredibly context dependent; but that is a massive digression. You're not actually addressing my point; a single Raider or Shaman does not kill Prospero; not even two of them accomplish that task. Full stop. Your conclusion was that placing a Vulcan in Prospero's battlegroup is a bad idea. Your main premise supporting that conclusion was that Propsero can get sniped out by things like Skorne Shamans and Raiders. Fortunately for all of us, your premise can be validated or refuted mathematically. Unfortunately for you, your premise is false, and your conclusion is therefore suspect. As far as Rasheth's feat getting involved, a Raider STILL does not kill Prospero with a single gunshot. Assuming that your opponent has left Prospero within Rasheth's incredibly predicatable threat range of applying his feat, and assuming that the Raider aims, a single boosted POW15 has a 16% chance of killing Prospero with focus camp. Assuming you get a second shot in from a Shaman, your odds go up to 55%. All of this assumes that there is no shield guard to catch a bullet, and that LOS is also available (you know, that Prospero isn't hiding behind a Vulcan or something). As far as a Vanguard being aggregated to the cost of the Prospero/Vulcan module because the Vanguard is within 3" of Prospero in a given turn, that makes zero actual sense. If the Vanguard is also within 3" of your caster during that turn, does that mean your caster has 10 less WJ Points? If he is also within 3" of your Vulcan, does that mean that your Vulcan costs 45 points? If he is also contesting a zone, or also poised to charge something next turn, what then? Care to address this in a logical manner?
|
|
|
CG Modues
Jan 24, 2019 2:09:13 GMT
via mobile
Post by jagius021 on Jan 24, 2019 2:09:13 GMT
Whoooaaa we got big words today. I have an anecdotal instance where it happened that I killed a prospero with my Shaman. Therefore, henceforth, and furthermore; I am right.
You want a better argument point? Show me a list winning a large tournament that uses that module. I'll concede my point at that moment. Until then, keep it pretentious boys.
|
|
|
CG Modues
Jan 24, 2019 13:16:39 GMT
via mobile
Post by Korianneder on Jan 24, 2019 13:16:39 GMT
Whoooaaa we got big words today. I have an anecdotal instance where it happened that I killed a prospero with my Shaman. Therefore, henceforth, and furthermore; I am right. You want a better argument point? Show me a list winning a large tournament that uses that module. I'll concede my point at that moment. Until then, keep it pretentious boys. So our experience combined with actual statistics is trash but this one time you killed prospero so obviously you're right unless there's proof from a big tournament. Let me just take your goal posts and move them even further for you.
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Jan 24, 2019 17:06:03 GMT
Whoooaaa we got big words today. I have an anecdotal instance where it happened that I killed a prospero with my Shaman. Therefore, henceforth, and furthermore; I am right. You want a better argument point? Show me a list winning a large tournament that uses that module. I'll concede my point at that moment. Until then, keep it pretentious boys. So you're mad at me for using words and facts to win an argument? You know, just admitting that you are wrong is the graceful way to exit this. Doubling down on your ignorant ramblings is not.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Jan 27, 2019 18:32:41 GMT
Quick, everybody! Argue about toy soldiers some more!
|
|
Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
|
Post by Juris on Feb 2, 2019 0:14:33 GMT
Quick, everybody! Argue about toy soldiers some more! Trivializing something that people obviously care about is very endearing.
|
|