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Post by chickenslayer on Oct 10, 2018 0:38:50 GMT
You've got to be DAMN careful with listening to hearsay like that, though. I know for a fact that there have been several 'reputable rumors' that the Circle community was engaged in a backdoor attempt to skew our CID. I've been accused of collaborating 'behind the scenes' with a couple of the other Circle posters on these boards...who I have literally never spoken to outside of said boards, and who (with a few exceptions) I don't even know the IRL identities of. Everyone wants there to be a grand conspiracy against their faction. It's not likely to be the case. It is way, way more likely that individual posters are affected by bias (and yes, I include myself in that, obviously), and/or that said players are simply not very good at the game. I have no idea where all this Wardolly Conspiracy has come from or why people would apparently spend their time and effort tanking a CID for a wargame of all things. Spoken like a true member of the Warmachine Illuminati
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Post by gobber on Oct 10, 2018 0:46:28 GMT
Also worth mentioning that there are a few PP staff in each of those "private" facebook groups, and many regularly comment as well. I've seen a few "rally the troops!" type of posts in the facebook groups that are then mirrored in CID, but it's all done in the open where PP can see it just as easily. "Organizing" seems a more appropriate term for it than "conspiracy."
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Post by oncomingstorm on Oct 10, 2018 1:09:39 GMT
You've got to be DAMN careful with listening to hearsay like that, though. I know for a fact that there have been several 'reputable rumors' that the Circle community was engaged in a backdoor attempt to skew our CID. I've been accused of collaborating 'behind the scenes' with a couple of the other Circle posters on these boards...who I have literally never spoken to outside of said boards, and who (with a few exceptions) I don't even know the IRL identities of. Everyone wants there to be a grand conspiracy against their faction. It's not likely to be the case. It is way, way more likely that individual posters are affected by bias (and yes, I include myself in that, obviously), and/or that said players are simply not very good at the game. I have also been accused of being part of the grand circle conspiracy, which is on the face of it preposterous. I've also been accused of being in a conspiracy to make Skorne bad in their CID (which all of my posts about how their theme benefit is boring should attest to being 100% true) and also that I make up battle reports (which is hilarious as I often have my opponents reply in my battle reports about their thoughts). I have no idea where all this Wardolly Conspiracy has come from or why people would apparently spend their time and effort tanking a CID for a wargame of all things. 'grand Circle conspiracy?' If anything, I'd have pegged you for Cygnar bias... But seriously, bias is one thing. I've got my share of that. People who post battle reports against themselves, or draw bad conclusions from battle reports are another. But some kind of...grand conspiracy of players trying to unfairly promote their faction? That'd require waaaay more organization than I've ever seen in this game's community. And hell, hardly anyone (at least, hardly anyone with any degree of serious experience) plays just one faction. Promoting one faction is really just shooting yourself in the foot (plus, doing so is just going get you a dynamic update in a year or so when the imbalance becomes clear). gobber - every 'rally the troops' post I've seen in the groups I'm in has been more along the lines of 'I don't think this is good, and it's not being tested, can we get more reports?' than 'lets flood the CID forum with bad data.'
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Post by gobber on Oct 10, 2018 1:45:22 GMT
gobber - every 'rally the troops' post I've seen in the groups I'm in has been more along the lines of 'I don't think this is good, and it's not being tested, can we get more reports?' than 'lets flood the CID forum with bad data.' That's a pretty accurate summation. To be clear I don't see organizing as a bad thing. There's a coordinated CID testing thread in this CID that seems to be heading in the productive direction too.
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 10, 2018 3:41:13 GMT
I have no idea where all this Wardolly Conspiracy has come from or why people would apparently spend their time and effort tanking a CID for a wargame of all things. Spoken like a true member of the Warmachine Illuminati Well, one just posted on the Warmachine General that all should gather and make things worse for the Skorne in this CID. I responded as angry while my tongue was in my cheek. I did put in a call for an assassin on Caeser, though. His 'friends' are obviously not getting to him fast enough.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Oct 10, 2018 5:52:18 GMT
At least we had 2 years grace before the meta descends into medium infantry spam a la end of MK2 style! Medium infantry armies that kind of work> *exists* People>WELP NOTHING BUT MEDIUM INFANTRY SPAM FOR DAYS! You > *make a light hearted joke* People > BAH RABBLE RABBLE!
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Post by hocestbellum on Oct 10, 2018 10:23:29 GMT
The only thing I've seen of that ilk on these forums was someone saying that they'd played X and it was amazing, so they weren't going to post on the CID forum in case it got nerfed. (I wish I could remember which CID it was for, it was certainly this year)
But as a counterpoint, said poster was pretty much instantly told by everyone else in the thread that it was stupid to approach the CID in that way.
As to this, whilst not a comment on the existence of a conspiracy, I know people who would do that at the drop of a hat if they thought it would bring them any sort of advantage in said wargame. And hell, I know people who would do it just because they wanted their favourite models to be cooler.
It's really not a massive leap of imagination that people might try to play the system for some perceived gain. Whether that is being conducted on a larger scale is another matter.
In this case, though, I just apply Hanlon's Razor.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Oct 10, 2018 15:22:47 GMT
You've got to be DAMN careful with listening to hearsay like that, though. I know for a fact that there have been several 'reputable rumors' that the Circle community was engaged in a backdoor attempt to skew our CID. I've been accused of collaborating 'behind the scenes' with a couple of the other Circle posters on these boards...who I have literally never spoken to outside of said boards, and who (with a few exceptions) I don't even know the IRL identities of. Everyone wants there to be a grand conspiracy against their faction. It's not likely to be the case. It is way, way more likely that individual posters are affected by bias (and yes, I include myself in that, obviously), and/or that said players are simply not very good at the game. I have also been accused of being part of the grand circle conspiracy, which is on the face of it preposterous. I've also been accused of being in a conspiracy to make Skorne bad in their CID (which all of my posts about how their theme benefit is boring should attest to being 100% true) and also that I make up battle reports (which is hilarious as I often have my opponents reply in my battle reports about their thoughts). I have no idea where all this Wardolly Conspiracy has come from or why people would apparently spend their time and effort tanking a CID for a wargame of all things. To be honest, you're just the biggest target. You're active in many discussions and abrasive in many interactions, and you're often the first to point out the harsher realities that people just don't want to see. So it's easy to paint you as the Big Bad of whatever people think the story is. I go through something similar when discussing my areas of expertise, like American politics. Also, when the discussion has anything to do with Cygnar, you put the blinders on big time, and in ways that run right down the line of all the old stereotypes of Cygnar players in general. But in almost every other case, your reasoning is quite solid and you're hard to argue with. People who are usually wrong find that frustrating. Maybe it's some kind of Dunning-Kreuger effect. As for how petty people can be over a game, the answer is very. Especially a faction-based game that requires a huge investment of time, energy, and money.
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Post by MrHaystacks on Oct 10, 2018 15:29:24 GMT
Hmm, Just saw that the devs are suggesting allowing certain models to be included with casters outside of theme.
That is really interesting. (As its for Zaal and mordikar who NEED void spirits and AG's to work). Its limited to certain key models so the impact will be low(ish?) but I don't know skorne. How big of a thing is this?
IIRC this is something that was simply stated they would not do, But here we are... what other casters could get this treatment? I doubt Sorcha 3 to get this treatment as she only loses Flank and there a few other MoW models floating about the themes (Although if she could bring a pair of drackhun out of theme...) Maybe the new circle caster could bring A unit of tharn, Anamag can bring a type of orgun solo and ect. How would this effect the game if they found this to be a positive change and expanded?
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Post by hocestbellum on Oct 10, 2018 15:45:43 GMT
I wouldn't like to guess as to how that will pan out, but it's certainly interesting. It depends how strong of a thematic link they're looking for, or whether it needs to be mechanical.
Also, would it just be solos? For example, Constance Blaize being able to take a unit of Precursor Knights in any theme for the Morrowan link.
From Khador I would love to see Vlad3 get increased cavalry access.
It certainly would increase versatility, and it would be interesting to see how it shook up certain themes.
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Ganso
Junior Strategist
Posts: 932
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Post by Ganso on Oct 10, 2018 21:33:24 GMT
Hmm, Just saw that the devs are suggesting allowing certain models to be included with casters outside of theme. that's very interesting, have a link?
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Post by MrHaystacks on Oct 11, 2018 9:20:13 GMT
I made thread asking for a collection of all the off forum dev feedback, some one posted this: Quote: "Soles saying it is likely we will be allowed to take Ancestral Guardians with Zaal1 & Void Spirits with Mordikaar1: Originally posted by PPS_Soles View Post We are considering adding rules to the Zaals that will allow them to take Ancestral Guardians in any army. Ditto Mordikaar and his Void Spirits. That said it is very unlikely these changes will be part of this CID because we do not want to change the focus off the The Exalted theme force. If we made this change (and I think it is likely), it will be added to the CID errata when it goes live in coming weeks. cid.privateerpress.com/forum/theorycrafting-listbuilding/t-l-exalted-week-1/100630-ancestral-guardians-zaal1-and-availability-outside-the-exalted "
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Post by dazzla on Oct 11, 2018 11:41:30 GMT
Hmm, Just saw that the devs are suggesting allowing certain models to be included with casters outside of theme. That is really interesting. (As its for Zaal and mordikar who NEED void spirits and AG's to work). Its limited to certain key models so the impact will be low(ish?) but I don't know skorne. How big of a thing is this? IIRC this is something that was simply stated they would not do, But here we are... what other casters could get this treatment? I doubt Sorcha 3 to get this treatment as she only loses Flank and there a few other MoW models floating about the themes (Although if she could bring a pair of drackhun out of theme...) Maybe the new circle caster could bring A unit of tharn, Anamag can bring a type of orgun solo and ect. How would this effect the game if they found this to be a positive change and expanded? It would certainly change the game if PP were consistent and took a similar approach to other factions - which I am assuming they would. It would mean that the CID rebalancing process should be restarted if there is to be consistency and balance, as it could lead to cases where intended theme short comings are easily mitigated. Whether it is a positive change depends on your view of themes. I dislike themes so am glad that PP may start unwinding them.
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Post by MrHaystacks on Oct 11, 2018 13:51:46 GMT
Hmm, Just saw that the devs are suggesting allowing certain models to be included with casters outside of theme. That is really interesting. (As its for Zaal and mordikar who NEED void spirits and AG's to work). Its limited to certain key models so the impact will be low(ish?) but I don't know skorne. How big of a thing is this? IIRC this is something that was simply stated they would not do, But here we are... what other casters could get this treatment? I doubt Sorcha 3 to get this treatment as she only loses Flank and there a few other MoW models floating about the themes (Although if she could bring a pair of drackhun out of theme...) Maybe the new circle caster could bring A unit of tharn, Anamag can bring a type of orgun solo and ect. How would this effect the game if they found this to be a positive change and expanded? It would certainly change the game if PP were consistent and took a similar approach to other factions - which I am assuming they would. It would mean that the CID rebalancing process should be restarted if there is to be consistency and balance, as it could lead to cases where intended theme short comings are easily mitigated. Whether it is a positive change depends on your view of themes. I dislike themes so am glad that PP may start unwinding them. I can see this being done more on a warcaster by Warlock basis to allow some casters more flexibility. I can see them doing this VERY sparingly. Zaal and mordikar are pretty reliant on those models. I can definitely see Constance and Vlad 3 getting this treatment. If it gets expanded further then we may see greater muddying of the themes.
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Post by Charistoph on Oct 11, 2018 16:49:13 GMT
I can see this being done more on a warcaster by Warlock basis to allow some casters more flexibility. I can see them doing this VERY sparingly. Zaal and mordikar are pretty reliant on those models. I can definitely see Constance and Vlad 3 getting this treatment. If it gets expanded further then we may see greater muddying of the themes. "Need" and "reliant" is often used where it shouldn't. Zaal1 needs Guardians in order for the Kovaas to be used. Mordikaar doesn't rely on Void Spirits, they rely on him. Zaal1 has a built in solo that requires an Exalted Soul Keeper model to die in order to appear. Without an Elite Cadre change for Zaal1 allowing Guardians to be taken with him, either his Warbeasts points needs to go up to take in to account the Khovaas may never be able to appear, the Kovaas can start on the board and be restored after death by a dying Guardian, or the Kovaas' link to Guardians completely severed. Mordikaar does not have points tied in to his Elite Cadre, at least not any more than any other elite cadre Warcaster/Warlock. He at least has a way to bring his Cadre in to any Theme he can be in by virtue of his Bonded Warbeast, which is a far sight more than Makeda2 can with Swordsman or any other Warcaster/Warlock with Elite Cadre. Mordikaar's problem is that his spell list is too quirky to justify taking him without his Elite Cadre, and he is not alone there. It's not like Mordikaar actually needs them himself to do anything, he just makes taking Void Spirits a lot more fun and interesting. They need him more than he needs them. If Essence Blast was used off a friendly Undead model, that would be a need and a reliance.
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