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Post by shroomvolcano on Sept 28, 2018 13:25:49 GMT
List Theory time! I've not played too much behind the Ret wheel before but I've played basically every other faction at some point, and now I've gone and started my elfy journey (thanks to a mystery box and one of my friends getting out of Ret). So: Once the CID changes go through and, as always provided the points changes stick, we'll be able to run Pacific Rim totally supported by Arcanists and maybe even a small unit or Arc Node, at least in Forges. My theoretical base battle group right now is two Hyperion (32+32), one Helios (34).
Who to run it though? Helynna is my first thought, obvs, she's been running it for days and maxes out those Warjack points, cranks armor, adds two big repairs to the pile (her own and the feat, kind of), and has some good utility with her additional drag gun.
My second thought is definitely Issyria. She has a speed boost, an armor boost, a way to slow down those pesky weaponmaster units, ancillary attack, and a fantastic feat for maxing out on those sparkleburst cannon shots. This certainly shifts the game from playing on the defensive (Helynna seems to like the "camp with big armor until you get to me and I hit you back" game) to a more offensive one, where we have pretty decent variable threat ranges and shoot/hit super hard. I can definitely see this absolutely destroying any and all small based lists, especially shield wall-dependent armies.
My third thought is Elara for going way on the offense. A Scything Touched Colossal is a big area to debuff, and Boundless gives us that variable threat range. Marked for Death is a decent Rat/Stealth fixer, and Ghostly let those colossals bypass terrain if need be.
Now my Ret dudes, I need opinions on the Warcaster to buy for this great venture! Thanks for listening to this episode of "Guy probably doesn't really know what he's talking about and has too many ideas," and let's make the Rim Pacific again!
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Post by elladan52 on Sept 28, 2018 13:46:58 GMT
My first thought is Ravyn, assuming week 3 holds. She is like a better Issyria, because she can have every colossal fire an extra time if she really wants to.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Sept 28, 2018 15:25:55 GMT
Garryth has the extra shot schtick as well, though eh... no real help otherwise I think...
I keep trying to shoehorn Vyros1 on that list, but fitting in a unit of anything is annoying!
Still, the original PR was Helynna, so she's still solid, except she can get free HSA's.
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Post by badnappy on Sept 29, 2018 4:28:42 GMT
Nor sure if Hyperion went down in points, saw someone say Hype was just the same as before CID now update has released. I haven't checked it myself yet.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Sept 29, 2018 6:35:46 GMT
Nor sure if Hyperion went down in points, saw someone say Hype was just the same as before CID now update has released. I haven't checked it myself yet. 32pts, Starburst Cannon RNG 12... Wk3 changes.
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Post by badnappy on Sept 29, 2018 11:48:21 GMT
Thanks, good to know. He's looking great now. Definitely go for two, ha ha. Poor old Helios now the expensive one.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 3, 2018 13:47:24 GMT
I played a bit of ret in Mk2 and a little less in mk3 but after the CID changes I'm looking at getting back into it. I played a similar version of the PR list (double helios, hyperion) with Ravyn before CID and it worked surprisingly well. Now that her personal output has increased and with open fire it gets even more fun. This is the list I'm currently looking at playing:
Ravyn in Forges -Hyperion x2 -helios HS Artificer (free, might change to Sylys for free upkeep) Arcanist x2 HS Arcanists x2 (both free) one unit with a Souless
Pretty simple fast list to run with little to no focus drain on Ravyn allowing her to do what ever she wants. Four 5" aoes each turn from 12" and 16" away. All backed up by a Helios who is pushing models into groups and absorbing the alpha.
Artificer vs Sylys: Sylys's main benefit is the free upkeep of snipe, that way Ravyn could open fire each colossal in a turn if she wanted too. Artificer is a hardy model that is fairly resistant to shooting to hold a flag and help keep Ravyn safer from shooting if the colossi have to split up. Still up in the air on this decision.
Before CID this was a list that made one of my opponents scoop as soon as I dropped the 3rd colossal on the table. Their reaction should be even better when I inform them of her new spell list.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Oct 6, 2018 2:55:21 GMT
The list above is just straight dirty. Those Starburst shots can easily have one boosted, or both on a feat turn, while benefiting from Snipe. It would leave her naked, but hiding behind three robots with Shield Guard is pretty safe most the time.
I don't know how that would fare in the broader meta, but it would easily tilt mine. Probably force a rapid migration into medium infantry or 'jack/'beast spam.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 8, 2018 11:45:06 GMT
The list above is just straight dirty. Those Starburst shots can easily have one boosted, or both on a feat turn, while benefiting from Snipe. It would leave her naked, but hiding behind three robots with Shield Guard is pretty safe most the time. I don't know how that would fare in the broader meta, but it would easily tilt mine. Probably force a rapid migration into medium infantry or 'jack/'beast spam. It is a really nasty list and I've only dropped it twice in my local meta and never again. I would only take this list as a pairing for a masters tournament or any one that had turn based time limits. Pair it with an infantry spam list like G4 in Legions and watch your opponent sweat over the list chicken.
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Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 8, 2018 18:52:10 GMT
Rayvn's feat would affect the Open Fire shots, right?
It's basically an autopilot list into a ton of match-ups which might get boring after a while, but I'm totally trying it in the meantime, especially with all of these cheap mystery box colossals floating around. T1: cast Snipe and everybody runs, T2: Free upkeep via Sylys, Hyp1 scoots n' shoots, activate Rayvn, Open Fire Hyp1/cycle Snipe/Open Fire Hyp2, Hyp2 scoots n' shoots. Let Helios do his thing at some point in there, either bumping people back, into the AOEs, or bumping them closer when it's cobbering time. Oh and 8 Mechanics running around tossing focus and repairing any broken systems seems pretty great. It feels like it'd lose a lot of presence pretty quickly once you lose a colossal, though.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 8, 2018 20:02:49 GMT
Rayvn's feat would affect the Open Fire shots, right? It's basically an autopilot list into a ton of match-ups which might get boring after a while, but I'm totally trying it in the meantime, especially with all of these cheap mystery box colossals floating around. T1: cast Snipe and everybody runs, T2: Free upkeep via Sylys, Hyp1 scoots n' shoots, activate Rayvn, Open Fire Hyp1/cycle Snipe/Open Fire Hyp2, Hyp2 scoots n' shoots. Let Helios do his thing at some point in there, either bumping people back, into the AOEs, or bumping them closer when it's cobbering time. Oh and 8 Mechanics running around tossing focus and repairing any broken systems seems pretty great. It feels like it'd lose a lot of presence pretty quickly once you lose a colossal, though. The mystery boxes is where I'm getting my third colossal. Local guy got a ret box and didn't want it.
You can drop a colossal and actually turn it into a decent list that doesn't lose all its presence when a colossal drops. It is just fun to stomp 3 huge robots up the field blasting everything in their path.
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Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 8, 2018 21:30:13 GMT
Rayvn's feat would affect the Open Fire shots, right? It's basically an autopilot list into a ton of match-ups which might get boring after a while, but I'm totally trying it in the meantime, especially with all of these cheap mystery box colossals floating around. T1: cast Snipe and everybody runs, T2: Free upkeep via Sylys, Hyp1 scoots n' shoots, activate Rayvn, Open Fire Hyp1/cycle Snipe/Open Fire Hyp2, Hyp2 scoots n' shoots. Let Helios do his thing at some point in there, either bumping people back, into the AOEs, or bumping them closer when it's cobbering time. Oh and 8 Mechanics running around tossing focus and repairing any broken systems seems pretty great. It feels like it'd lose a lot of presence pretty quickly once you lose a colossal, though. The mystery boxes is where I'm getting my third colossal. Local guy got a ret box and didn't want it.
You can drop a colossal and actually turn it into a decent list that doesn't lose all its presence when a colossal drops. It is just fun to stomp 3 huge robots up the field blasting everything in their path.
Nah, I mean dropping 3 on the table and losing 1 to damage. That's a lot of output gone. I guess you have to really leverage Helios to mess with enemy positioning so you never have more than one heavy on a colossal at a time.
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 9, 2018 11:06:17 GMT
The mystery boxes is where I'm getting my third colossal. Local guy got a ret box and didn't want it.
You can drop a colossal and actually turn it into a decent list that doesn't lose all its presence when a colossal drops. It is just fun to stomp 3 huge robots up the field blasting everything in their path.
Nah, I mean dropping 3 on the table and losing 1 to damage. That's a lot of output gone. I guess you have to really leverage Helios to mess with enemy positioning so you never have more than one heavy on a colossal at a time. I knew what you meant. I was more or less saying you could build a Ravyn double colossal list and use the rest of the points from not taking the 3rd colossal to fill in with other models to create a less tilting and more competitive list.
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Post by shroomvolcano on Oct 9, 2018 12:13:22 GMT
Gotcha. Alright, let's bend this equation a bit: deployment. Helios up the middle for drags and Hyperion on either flank? Just wall up the middle and dare people to come at you? It's sounds like you've dropped a multi colossal list before, against what you did you play it against and what were your thoughts on deployment?
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Post by apoc2148 on Oct 9, 2018 13:09:14 GMT
Gotcha. Alright, let's bend this equation a bit: deployment. Helios up the middle for drags and Hyperion on either flank? Just wall up the middle and dare people to come at you? It's sounds like you've dropped a multi colossal list before, against what you did you play it against and what were your thoughts on deployment? I've played several games with ravyn helio+hyperion and generally I tried to send the hyperion against infantry for the sweet aoe 5 crit consume. Helios was sent after their caster, as long as they can be pushed.
With the triple build my initial thoughts were Helios up the center for max utility with rng 16 tractor beams, with a hyperion flanking dropping pie plates and thresher cannon fire. I think you would want to lead with the helios to absorb the alpha since it is the most resilient of the two with repulsor field up. And since colossi can shoot out of melee and helios has dual attacks, if it survives and gets repaired back up to full functionality it can clear LOS with its melee attacks to juicy targets in the back field and drag them up 9", either in range of itself for more melee attacks or in range of the 2 hyperions behind it.
The double colossal builds I've dropped into a handful of different lists in mk2, Durst, kraye, pHaley, Siege. And found that the biggest detriment was the terrain. There have been times where I've gotten a colossal pinned between my objective and a piece of impassable terrain. Now in mk3 since you can move through your own objective and flags that issue disappears.
In mk3 I've only dropped it into a Kraye heavy metal list and against low model count lists it can be devastating, as long as the models can be pushed. So durst, most of the merc jacks and some khador jacks, enemo can be more difficult. But against lists that can be pushed around you can keep their heavy hitters from event getting close to your colossi with the helios pushing them backwards as the hyperions shoot up their front lines.
So lists to avoid would be any strong anti-shooting lists (mass stealth), anti-movement lists (mercs with all of the gun-bunnies).
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