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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 25, 2018 17:19:08 GMT
My current meta is just not conducive to that. This is huge. I have a very small meta, with people playing multiple factions (usually 3). Hordes factions are actually more dominant where I am. That said, a warmachine faction is usually slower, so I can just sit my army outside their melee threats for a turn, take any spells and bullets, and then just win by throwing Rhyas and a Rapport warbeast at the caster. I cut it out of the quote but I remember you bringing up playstyle conflict. Yeah, its a playstyle conflict. I can say the same for Kryssa. Your tactica on her is VERY informative, and well thought-out. I just personally don't mesh well with how she's supposed to operate. And honestly, thats the issue we're discussing here. You personally don't like Rhyas' playstyle, and thats okay. There are plenty of other warlocks in the faction. And not every warlock is going to answer every meta. In fact, its better that way. It creates variety. |
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Oct 21, 2018 7:56:27 GMT
With all this talk about rhyas not being able to project her threat more forward, I'm surprised there's not more thoughts about hellmouths, angelii and nerpahs. Are those movement effects so hard to implement we just don't bother anymore? If we can't get rhyas to the enemy, bring them to her? Throwing in the feat with that will give her some activation issues but it will definitely up the mess.
On a different note, Rhyas and the choices mentioned above project a line people would rather not cross and I think arguing she doesn't contribute untill she starts dicing is the wrong way to think about it. Moving that line up by 2" is great, and I think Terrors is the place for her atm (if you want to stick to themes).
Which is kinda sad thematically, and losing the throne for, but all in all it's the best match: nearly all the beasts, all bigger bases to hide behind, smaller units to fit in her tiny dash bubble (and that really appreciate that buff) and of course (free) hellmouths.
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 22, 2018 2:25:20 GMT
With all this talk about rhyas not being able to project her threat more forward, I'm surprised there's not more thoughts about hellmouths, angelii and nerpahs. Are those movement effects so hard to implement we just don't bother anymore? If we can't get rhyas to the enemy, bring them to her? Throwing in the feat with that will give her some activation issues but it will definitely up the mess. On a different note, Rhyas and the choices mentioned above project a line people would rather not cross and I think arguing she doesn't contribute untill she starts dicing is the wrong way to think about it. Moving that line up by 2" is great, and I think Terrors is the place for her atm (if you want to stick to themes). Which is kinda sad thematically, and losing the throne for, but all in all it's the best match: nearly all the beasts, all bigger bases to hide behind, smaller units to fit in her tiny dash bubble (and that really appreciate that buff) and of course (free) hellmouths. Hellmouths are certianly good, but no one in their right mind is going to put their caster near a Hellmouth (or any real important piece for that matter). Angelii and neraphs are even harder to use. If you can get an enemy in range of a Nerpah's animus, you might as well make the Neraph attack (on that note, with feat the Neraph can use beatback to push a model to your army, theoretically). Angelii push away, so that doesn't really help. So, I guess the short answer is yes, it is kind hard to use those effects to our advantage, mainly due to pre-measuring. |
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Oct 22, 2018 6:15:25 GMT
But then you have two 24" bubbles important pieces don't want to enter (early on) which should help you on scenario right?
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 22, 2018 16:11:56 GMT
But then you have two 24" bubbles important pieces don't want to enter (early on) which should help you on scenario right? I mean, yes, but thats not exactly exclusive to Rhyas. It will help, but if you want to score on scenario, I wouldn't recommend Rhyas. They can potentially add to the mind games stuff, but I haven't had just amazing experience with them and Rhyas, specifically. They can get in the way of her army, in my experience. Even if you were to try to put them in the most out-of the way corner possible, you need as much flexibility as possible in terms of moving to the right place. Excluding Rhyas, Hellmouths usually end up getting in the way of a model's charge lane. Even if you pulled a model closer, you might displace it from where you wanted that model to be, in order to get a good placement effect. I'm sure they could be good pieces for her, but I don't see any direct synergies that just make me go "wow". If anyone has different experience, please share it. |
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Post by level on Oct 29, 2018 12:18:22 GMT
Hellmouths are really great contesting pieces as they are very hard to get rid of and require your opponent to really commit something to take them out. One on each flank means that wide zones can be reliably contested so that Rhyas and the rest of her forces can concentrate in her small control area.
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 29, 2018 15:24:34 GMT
Hellmouths are really great contesting pieces as they are very hard to get rid of and require your opponent to really commit something to take them out. One on each flank means that wide zones can be reliably contested so that Rhyas and the rest of her forces can concentrate in her small control area. While this is true, you will want to send one warbeast along a flank using rapport. A small detail that certainly doesn't detract from the above statement, but one I find important to her gameplan nonetheless. |
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Post by level on Oct 31, 2018 16:01:30 GMT
Hellmouths are really great contesting pieces as they are very hard to get rid of and require your opponent to really commit something to take them out. One on each flank means that wide zones can be reliably contested so that Rhyas and the rest of her forces can concentrate in her small control area. While this is true, you will want to send one warbeast along a flank using rapport. A small detail that certainly doesn't detract from the above statement, but one I find important to her gameplan nonetheless. It could also be argued that rapport can be cycled on beasts so therefore giving 2 beasts superior RAT/MAT each turn. I believe that this is a pretty effective way to use the spell but won't really work if you send your rapport beast wide as when you recast it you run the risk of leaving a beast out of control. By keeping your battlegroup central it will also help with fury management as you can keep your sheperds and forsaken safer. |
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Post by davycannonhound on Oct 31, 2018 21:25:00 GMT
While this is true, you will want to send one warbeast along a flank using rapport. A small detail that certainly doesn't detract from the above statement, but one I find important to her gameplan nonetheless. It could also be argued that rapport can be cycled on beasts so therefore giving 2 beasts superior RAT/MAT each turn. I believe that this is a pretty effective way to use the spell but won't really work if you send your rapport beast wide as when you recast it you run the risk of leaving a beast out of control. By keeping your battlegroup central it will also help with fury management as you can keep your sheperds and forsaken safer. Thats generally more fury than Rhyas will want to spend. Additionally, combined with her feat, the control range boost is actually more important. Of course, that would only be on feat turn, but thats the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Sure, you can use a shepherd to boost outside of her control, but the warbeast won't benefit from her feat. The stat boost is nice, however it won't really matter too much unless you get to the enemy caster/important piece. I see your point, but trying to cycle spells on a fury 5 caster generally isn't the best idea, especially when the caster doesn't have a gun. Ultimately though, it just depends on whether or not you can pull it off. If you can, more power to you. Its just a bit too "ambitious" for my tastes, if you get what I mean. |
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Post by level on Nov 1, 2018 10:18:06 GMT
It could also be argued that rapport can be cycled on beasts so therefore giving 2 beasts superior RAT/MAT each turn. I believe that this is a pretty effective way to use the spell but won't really work if you send your rapport beast wide as when you recast it you run the risk of leaving a beast out of control. By keeping your battlegroup central it will also help with fury management as you can keep your sheperds and forsaken safer. Thats generally more fury than Rhyas will want to spend. Additionally, combined with her feat, the control range boost is actually more important. Of course, that would only be on feat turn, but thats the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Sure, you can use a shepherd to boost outside of her control, but the warbeast won't benefit from her feat. The stat boost is nice, however it won't really matter too much unless you get to the enemy caster/important piece. I see your point, but trying to cycle spells on a fury 5 caster generally isn't the best idea, especially when the caster doesn't have a gun. Ultimately though, it just depends on whether or not you can pull it off. If you can, more power to you. Its just a bit too "ambitious" for my tastes, if you get what I mean. Succubus allows you to upkeep one spell for free and rapport costs 2. So you can have 2 elite stat heavies each turn with Rhyas left with 3 fury. Im purely making suggestions on what Rhyas is capable of doing, certainly not criticizing anyone's personal playstyle with her. |
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Post by chillychinaman on Nov 1, 2018 16:28:44 GMT
Succubus allows you to upkeep one spell for free and rapport costs 2. So you can have 2 elite stat heavies each turn with Rhyas left with 3 fury. Im purely making suggestions on what Rhyas is capable of doing, certainly not criticizing anyone's personal playstyle with her. 2 Fury since Rhyas is most likely upkeeping Occultation on herself, but I agree with level. I've been doing this with double Carniveans since the start of Mk3 for sweet RAT6 sprays. |
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 1, 2018 19:04:22 GMT
Thats generally more fury than Rhyas will want to spend. Additionally, combined with her feat, the control range boost is actually more important. Of course, that would only be on feat turn, but thats the part that a lot of people don't seem to understand. Sure, you can use a shepherd to boost outside of her control, but the warbeast won't benefit from her feat. The stat boost is nice, however it won't really matter too much unless you get to the enemy caster/important piece. I see your point, but trying to cycle spells on a fury 5 caster generally isn't the best idea, especially when the caster doesn't have a gun. Ultimately though, it just depends on whether or not you can pull it off. If you can, more power to you. Its just a bit too "ambitious" for my tastes, if you get what I mean. Succubus allows you to upkeep one spell for free and rapport costs 2. So you can have 2 elite stat heavies each turn with Rhyas left with 3 fury. Im purely making suggestions on what Rhyas is capable of doing, certainly not criticizing anyone's personal playstyle with her. Oh I'm fully aware of the Succubus. Its a required model with Rhyas in my book (I say as much in my tactica). However with Occulation on the table and potentially a want to use dash, you're going to want as much fury as possible. Hot-swapping just isn't condusive to that. That said however, if you don't really plan on bringing infantry, hot-swapping rapport becomes a lot more feasible. |
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Nov 7, 2018 8:26:52 GMT
That said however, if you don't really plan on bringing infantry, hot-swapping rapport becomes a lot more feasible. At first that made me giggle, but now I wonder; what kind of armycomposition gets the most out of rhyas' toolbox? For obvious reasons it screams infantry because they get a ton of attacks out of that feat, a movementboost etc. but it's not like they get an extra charge attack, it's heavy on the clock and placement is hard to maximise. Especially in that tiny bubble of hers. Maybe focussing on beasts isn't so bad, despite her low fury stat. Some well positioned beasts can do a whole lot of damage so now Im back to thinking oracles with the nyss support units, fury posse and all the beasts she needs plus extra. With rapport to use at her leisure and some raeks with their native long leash, this can give her a lot of room to breath movementwise, which is never wrong in this game. |
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Post by davycannonhound on Nov 7, 2018 17:00:42 GMT
That said however, if you don't really plan on bringing infantry, hot-swapping rapport becomes a lot more feasible. At first that made me giggle, but now I wonder; what kind of armycomposition gets the most out of rhyas' toolbox? For obvious reasons it screams infantry because they get a ton of attacks out of that feat, a movementboost etc. but it's not like they get an extra charge attack, it's heavy on the clock and placement is hard to maximise. Especially in that tiny bubble of hers. Maybe focussing on beasts isn't so bad, despite her low fury stat. Some well positioned beasts can do a whole lot of damage so now Im back to thinking oracles with the nyss support units, fury posse and all the beasts she needs plus extra. With rapport to use at her leisure and some raeks with their native long leash, this can give her a lot of room to breath movementwise, which is never wrong in this game. IMO beasts get more out of her feat than infantry, especially ones with multiple initials. Combined with Rapport, you can slingshot a beast into your opponent's army (my personal favorite tactic). Really the only thing that screams infantry in her toolkit specifically is Dash. Yeah she's 5 fury, but with two forsakens and 3 shepherds you can still force a lot of beasts, some even out of her CTRL (though not with the benefit of her feat). So, all beasts with Rhyas is very viable. |
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thelat
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Post by thelat on Nov 8, 2018 2:32:38 GMT
At first that made me giggle, but now I wonder; what kind of armycomposition gets the most out of rhyas' toolbox? For obvious reasons it screams infantry because they get a ton of attacks out of that feat, a movementboost etc. but it's not like they get an extra charge attack, it's heavy on the clock and placement is hard to maximise. Especially in that tiny bubble of hers. Maybe focussing on beasts isn't so bad, despite her low fury stat. Some well positioned beasts can do a whole lot of damage so now Im back to thinking oracles with the nyss support units, fury posse and all the beasts she needs plus extra. With rapport to use at her leisure and some raeks with their native long leash, this can give her a lot of room to breath movementwise, which is never wrong in this game. IMO beasts get more out of her feat than infantry, especially ones with multiple initials. Combined with Rapport, you can slingshot a beast into your opponent's army (my personal favorite tactic). Really the only thing that screams infantry in her toolkit specifically is Dash. Yeah she's 5 fury, but with two forsakens and 3 shepherds you can still force a lot of beasts, some even out of her CTRL (though not with the benefit of her feat). So, all beasts with Rhyas is very viable. This really depends on whether your gameplan is assault or assassination. The feat is an extra attack per model, and that can mean a lot if you brought the Blightbringer and the right infantry. |
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