germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
|
Post by germanicus on Sept 24, 2018 13:57:03 GMT
nothing should be priced for what it can become under x or q bugaboo. it should cost an appropriate numbr price for wat it does. nice hunters die super fast, dont hit dat hard and aint worth 19pts Oh, I agree, but the problem they have (and explains why Circle + Nyss Hunters will never be found in the same sensible sentence, ever), is that Mercs and Ret have too much of a gulf between them for what they can do for them as factions, not when it comes to individual casters, purely as factions (all themes considered etc.). In Ret, they are worth their 19pts because of both what the faction can do for them (as partisan Ret and an automatically available option in one of them and default Merc option for all the others) they are essentially a Ret unit, not a Merc one. *shrug* They were my go to 10-man ranged unit for a long time, and once the dynamic update hits for CID, a substantial minority of the Forges of War players will include them or consider them very seriously. They simply have more of a reason to be in Ret lists than Merc ones from my perspective.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Sept 24, 2018 14:47:20 GMT
There is also a chance that the charscter units each get touched in the up coming stealhead cid.
Actually i hope that the nyss show up there with the tac
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 24, 2018 16:11:11 GMT
There is also a chance that the charscter units each get touched in the up coming stealhead cid. Actually i hope that the nyss show up there with the tac I'm not holding my breath, we will be lucky to sneak the Galleon in, I doubt PP will want to dilute the steelhead CID with legacy stuff
|
|
|
Post by michael on Sept 24, 2018 16:49:45 GMT
I would happily pay 15 points for the full unit of Devil Dogs.
|
|
shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
|
Post by shoe on Sept 24, 2018 17:22:34 GMT
There is also a chance that the charscter units each get touched in the up coming stealhead cid. Actually i hope that the nyss show up there with the tac I'm not holding my breath, we will be lucky to sneak the Galleon in, I doubt PP will want to dilute the steelhead CID with legacy stuff there are liek 10 Steehead things in the whole game and most Cycles have 20 to 30 thingies.
|
|
|
Post by borderprince on Sept 25, 2018 3:13:58 GMT
Hi guys, so I hope you can help me a little bit cause I don't know what I should do:( Cause of MK2 and the old themes I actually own : 1 full Unit Boomhowler 1 full Unit Nyss 1 full Unit of the Devildogs So do ya think it's possible and reliable to give all three a chance? I hate them standing on my shelf for nothing, but I don't know how and what to do with them Just to point out that 2 of the 3 are also minion units, so you could also think about running them as minions.
|
|
tanan
Junior Strategist
Posts: 209
|
Post by tanan on Sept 27, 2018 6:27:30 GMT
michael I agree. Devil dogs got a big buff with Irregulars and meta shift to melee armies. Probably being thick but what do they get from irregulars? I can see snipe from magnus1 but aside from counting towards free stuff points and letting a Jack advance move in not seeing it. You forgot flanking warjack hits like ton of bricks. Sams jack is also the fastest jack in the faction (advance move+trample+repo5 = 18” move on 1st turn). What most people don't realize is that it's rarely a good idea to use net as a accuracy fixer. You are basically giving up heavy warjack equivalent melee attack. You should have other models to take care of that. Models like buccaneer or Sam MAT7 stun sword. Many of our models synergize with DDs: - Buccaneer: Knockdown fixes accuracy issues - Renegade: Knockdown fixes accuracy issues - Lanyssa: Free charge amps up Flank and Crush!-drive. - Rhupert: Pathfinder, Concealment & Tough - A&H & Gorman & Ragman: Only thing better than weaponmaster attack is weaponmaster attack with +2 dmg - Fiona: Roth's mercy & feat on keeps Sam alive, Affliction fixes accuracy issues. DDs love timewalk feat. - Bart: Feat keeps DDs alive and knocks down advancing enemies - Shae: Feat gives +3 extra threat range for DDs and jacks. Coup de main give free charges and 2" threat range for marshalled freebooter. - Gorten: Feat fixes accuracy issues and brings more targets to be destroyed. Solid ground makes nets an interesting tactical choice. - Durgen: Primed fixes melee accuracy issues and +2dmg. - Ossrum: Snipe for DDs or Bullet Dodger for Sam - Magnus1: Snipe for DDs and Iron Aggression for marshalled jack. - Magnus2: Calamity fixes accuracy issues and is a dmg buff. DDs love timewalk feat. ...
|
|
|
Post by phantasm on Sept 30, 2018 8:05:08 GMT
The majority of the non-rhulic and non-cephalyx mercenary faction models are in dire need of point reductions and/or improved abilities/stats. Boomhowlers are barely better than Kriel Warriors yet they still cost significantly more, same goes for the grossly overpriced Nyss and extremely meta depend Devil Dogs. I understand that mercenaries are a hard faction to balance because most other factions has access to them to at least some degree but this is just ridiculous. There is palpable irony in being the faction with the most models, which was clearly intended to gear players towards list diversity, yet have some of the most horrendously lopsided balance on models to the point were spam is encouraged and originality is punished.
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 1, 2018 15:42:26 GMT
I would not complain if Boomhowler & Company saw some improvements.
I see zero reason to take them in Khador, and I also see no reason to take them in Mercenaries.
How does one avoid the MK II problems, wherein the unit was simply superior to a number of in-faction options? You’ve got me!
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Oct 8, 2018 23:14:07 GMT
16. they stink and are teh easiest 19 points to remove u can buy Same as trenchers with no CA? That doesn't sound right. Can you maybe enlighten me what you mean with this, if it wasnt a typo. Trencher Infantry without a CA doesn't cost 19 points and they have tough, dig in and smoke bombs and are 13/13 Which sounds a lot more survivable than Nyss with, well, none of that and 14/11.
|
|
shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
|
Post by shoe on Oct 9, 2018 0:00:44 GMT
Same as trenchers with no CA? That doesn't sound right. Can you maybe enlighten me what you mean with this, if it wasnt a typo. Trencher Infantry without a CA doesn't cost 19 points and they have tough, dig in and smoke bombs and are 13/13 Which sounds a lot more survivable than Nyss with, well, none of that and 14/11. perspicacious for one so young...
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Oct 9, 2018 0:23:11 GMT
Can you maybe enlighten me what you mean with this, if it wasnt a typo. Trencher Infantry without a CA doesn't cost 19 points and they have tough, dig in and smoke bombs and are 13/13 Which sounds a lot more survivable than Nyss with, well, none of that and 14/11. perspicacious for one so young... I mean even I can look at the cards and compare. And what they said doesn't add up at all. So either there is something I am really missing... or this whole thing smells....
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Oct 9, 2018 9:29:12 GMT
perspicacious for one so young... I mean even I can look at the cards and compare. And what they said doesn't add up at all. So either there is something I am really missing... or this whole thing smells.... Ignore Shoe that ones a very unhelpful forum mite, good player i hear. So what is mentioned with the phrase reefers to 14/11. As a stat line thats on the higher curve of defence. Speed 7 mat/rat 6 (7 for leader) with a range 12 pow 10 and melee at rng 1 p+s 9 weapon master look great on paper. But the unit will suffer casualties from pow6 blast damage. They lack any anti range defence stealth, prowel, or force barrier making them fairly easily removed. Once lains close they average 3-4 models when charging in and need to bring a swing of 15+points to make thier cost worh it. That or remove all your opponents key supporters
|
|
sorokin
Junior Strategist
Posts: 775
|
Post by sorokin on Oct 9, 2018 10:33:22 GMT
I mean even I can look at the cards and compare. And what they said doesn't add up at all. So either there is something I am really missing... or this whole thing smells.... Ignore Shoe that ones a very unhelpful forum mite, good player i hear. So what is mentioned with the phrase reefers to 14/11. As a stat line thats on the higher curve of defence. Speed 7 mat/rat 6 (7 for leader) with a range 12 pow 10 and melee at rng 1 p+s 9 weapon master look great on paper. But the unit will suffer casualties from pow6 blast damage. They lack any anti range defence stealth, prowel, or force barrier making them fairly easily removed. Once lains close they average 3-4 models when charging in and need to bring a swing of 15+points to make thier cost worh it. That or remove all your opponents key supporters Don't worry I have lurked this forum extensively to know about shoe's antics. And ironically I actually found many a post by him to be genuinely helpful, once you bother to look beneath the trolling that is. That being said, I wonder if one point more in defense (which means Mat 7 still hits you on average) is really going to offset tough, dig in AND smoke bombs. Nyss have slightly above average defense, and that is all that's supposed to keep them alive and it doesn't even help against blasts. Trencher Infantry has the option to: 1. Not get shot at at all thanks to smoke. 2. Tough it out if the were to die. 3. Not die like flies to blasts. Nyss might be better when it comes to damage out put (even though Trenchers have Assault, so i wonder about that), but i fail to see how they "as survivable as Trencher Infantry without CA". Especially since the latter doesn't cost 19 points, so if you lose trencher models, thats still less points lost than if you lost Nyss models.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Oct 9, 2018 11:23:00 GMT
i fail to see how they "as survivable as Trencher Infantry without CA". The way I read the chain of comments Shoe said that Nyss Hunters should cost 16 points, and Jisidro was comparing that proposed points cost (rather than the unit's survivability) to that of Trenchers. Personally I don't have an opinion on how Nyss compare to Trenchers in terms of survivability or output, but I do know that they have a lot of good rules on their card: Pathfinder (which I think is very valuable), Hunter (which is quite a rare ability), Weapon Master (although low base P+S makes this less impressive), CRA. SPD 7 is nice, DEF 14 is... not as nice as their old MKII DEF 15 used to be, but with Pathfinder and their high SPD and decent RNG they are pretty good at taking advantage of terrain for added defense. But yeah, 19 points seems expensive to me in the current game. They are decent generalists, but at the end of the day they are not very survivable, they don't hit very hard, they don't really do anything special (like put up a cloud wall) and they just don't do any one thing particularly well. Plus the models are ugly and hard to put together (I was suckered into buying them by the words "Weapon Master" and the fantastic unit artwork in the old Mercs book). If they were a bit cheaper they would be a "safe" infantry choice that's OK in a lot of situations, but as it is they are a bit overpriced for that.
|
|