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Post by harrism on Sept 12, 2018 20:16:38 GMT
Really simply question but why does he not see use? Seems to have a really good set of spells, free upkeeps on battle group and a feat along the lines of kaya2 double alpha. It feels like he should be played a lot, so there must be a reason he isn't?
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824 
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Post by Xintas on Sept 12, 2018 20:49:31 GMT
Honestly, he isn't our best option for basically anything. Magnus2 runs the jack scenario/attrition game much better. Bart (among others) runs the Galleon better. He isn't particularly great at creating lanes for assassinations and he doesn't really want to run a lot of infantry (some is great, a lot is meh).
Overall, he's just not "min-maxy".
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Sept 12, 2018 21:55:08 GMT
so like imagine commander coldman striker one but worse at everything and there you go
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Post by thimnwitt on Sept 12, 2018 23:24:28 GMT
King Makers with Snipe on Trencher Long Gunners, Galleon+ 2 renegades has won me quite a few matches. But yes, as much as I love Mags1, Mags2 is a better incarnation.
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Post by borderprince on Sept 13, 2018 8:25:26 GMT
He's got no outstanding strengths is the main reason. Resourceful and his feat make it look like you want to run him battle group heavy, but:
(1) Outside of those options, he doesn't actually support a large battlegroup that well - his spells only affect individual jacks, which is a definite shortcoming in a battlegroup caster. That's exacerbated by merc jacks not being especially effective as single models. Nomads are good because they are cheap and so can be taken in multiples, for example. His spells are also often worth applying to non-BG models, reducing the value of Resourceful.
Iron Aggression can be a great spell, but only affects a single jack (and the boosted attack rolls doesn't always matter). Manglers like the boosted attack rolls for Thresher, but don't need the free charge.It can also be cast on a marshalled jack in Irregulars which is a bit janky, but can give better performance. Flank + Crush + free charge is good.
Death Ward is decent on a jack/colossal, but also worthwhile on some units (Forgeguard);
Snipe has limited suitable targets (Renegades usually have long enough range, other merc jacks aren't that great for shooting - maybe Galleon, but then you're not using Deathward on your toughtest model). And again often better on a unit;
Blur is better on units/Magnus.
(2) Without speed buffs, the yo-yo you suggest from the feat is very hard to pull off. Kaya2 has faster beasts with Circle's movement tricks. It's worth noting that Malakov2 in Khador used to have a feat that also gave jacks Parry and a free move. It wasn't identical, but not dissimilar. And that feat was sufficiently lacklustre that it got changed to affect all FF models. Still not great, but definitely better.
Although his abilities suggest BG caster, he's really more combined arms. But some other casters (Magnus2, Ossrum) do that better. There is potential for ranged assassination, but it is very dependent on knockdown via Renegades and/or Scourge. But there's quite a bit of no knockdown tech in the game, not to mention Shield Guards and so on.
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Munindk
Junior Strategist
Posts: 210
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Post by Munindk on Sept 13, 2018 10:27:25 GMT
I wonder if he would be better if Mercs had better ranged jacks? That would make Caine3 playable though... so Magnus would still be ignored.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Sept 13, 2018 11:59:20 GMT
He seems fine apart from his feat, which just seems so lacklustre, I could think of half a dozen better feats
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Sept 13, 2018 13:43:55 GMT
he dont gots 2 thing he needs. spd buff and damage buff. so he dont hit first or hard.
feat should add +2 spd or his bolt becomes mobility
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Post by snotling on Sept 13, 2018 14:31:20 GMT
I wonder if he would be better if Mercs had better ranged jacks? That would make Caine3 playable though... so Magnus would still be ignored. If merc jacks get a treatment even close to what circle heavys get right now. this could very well happen. especially with the new solo that gives focus. |
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Post by thimnwitt on Sept 13, 2018 15:15:03 GMT
Well, we still wouldn't end up with light jacks that would make Caine3 playable. Vanguard is great but it's not what he is looking for.
I suspect when the Steelheads CID rolls around Magnus1 maybe getting looked at.
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Post by borderprince on Sept 14, 2018 5:49:35 GMT
he dont gots 2 thing he needs. spd buff and damage buff. so he dont hit first or hard. feat should add +2 spd or his bolt becomes mobility Agree with speed and/or damage buff. Not so sure about the specific suggestions.
Personal view is:
Death Ward becomes Redline - Magnus1 is on the run/re-establishing himself. Magnus has also shown himself not to care much about the lives of those he cares about in most fiction. A defensive buff which can apply to warriors doesn't make much sense to me.
Pushing his machines to their limits (and beyond) is appropriate for a desperate, wanted man and fits with Magnus' skill with mechanika and jacks. Redline gives both a speed and damage buff to a single jack. Combine with Iron Aggression and you've got two jacks running/charging for free, with those spells upkept for free, which is decent for a melee battlegroup. Even with FOC6 Magnus can then afford to fully load those buffed jacks and still have a couple of focus.
Feat - Speed buff to battlegroup; parry to all FFM in control to reflect him striking where people don't expect. Another possibility could be free cycling of upkeeps in the battlegroup, to get more work in a given turn?
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Post by phantasm on Sept 16, 2018 6:16:36 GMT
The problem is that his abilities are all over the place and yet lacking were the faction really needs it. Whenever The CID gets around to looking at him I really hope they decide to switch out a spell or two and buff/replace his feat. Maybe even give him something like Field Marshal [Sprint] if they want to stick with the whole "Hit & Run" guerrilla warfare thing he has going on.
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Post by Charistoph on Sept 16, 2018 20:24:40 GMT
Maybe during Steelhead, but more than likely the Magni will not be in CID until they put Kingmaker's through the ringer.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Sept 16, 2018 21:44:36 GMT
betcha dey tweaks kingmarker during steehead cid. it feeling its age. also bet magnus1 is one of teh casters dey fix
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Post by thimnwitt on Sept 17, 2018 2:10:09 GMT
I have been wondering if the Steelhead CID will be King Makers or if Steelheads are getting a new theme.
I'm really suspecting that the Steelhead CID will be an open theme available to all factions who can hire them. Steelheads would then be cut from Irregulars and only accessible to Mercs through the King Makers or new Steelheads theme. *Puts the crack pipe down* Tis only a guess, a shot in the dark.
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