|
|
Post by davycannonhound on Sept 10, 2018 23:00:35 GMT
So, I got to thinking... if Legion got maybe two more magic units, and a couple more magic solos, Oracles of Annihilation could be a magic theme that benefits magic casters and generates points from models/units with magic ability, whilst Legion gains a fifth theme (kind of like Khador, or Cryx [which has SIX themes by the way], or Circle) that is warbeast based. Buff the beasts (maybe take lessers for free?), as well as generating points from warbeasts. Thoughts? I'm not sure what the theme would be called, but maybe its composition rules would be the following?
Legion Warlocks
Legion Warbeasts
(Unused Character beast, such as Proteus or Typhon?)
Legion Battle Engines
Hellmouths
Forsaken
Spell Martyrs
Succubus
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548 
|
Post by gordo on Sept 11, 2018 14:05:07 GMT
They will never give us a beast theme that has access to Hellmouths because there would be too many NPEs. People freaking hate that model. That's why they were excluded from OoA, because from a fluff perspective they make total sense.
Also, the issue I see with an all sorcery theme is that almost every model in it if also available in Children of the Dragon.
But ignoring these issues, and assuming there are no Hellmouths in it, I would give such a theme Hyper Regeneration for all war beasts. It feels blighty and would help us survive gun lines on the approach (a little)
And yes, free options should absolutely be lesser war beasts and solos.
|
|
|
|
Post by apoc2148 on Sept 11, 2018 14:29:02 GMT
They will never give us a beast theme that has access to Hellmouths because there would be too many NPEs. People freaking hate that model. That's why they were excluded from OoA, because from a fluff perspective they make total sense. Also, the issue I see with an all sorcery theme is that almost every model in it if also available in Children of the Dragon. But ignoring these issues, and assuming there are no Hellmouths in it, I would give such a theme Hyper Regeneration for all war beasts. It feels blighty and would help us survive gun lines on the approach (a little) And yes, free options should absolutely be lesser war beasts and solos. They could get rapid healing. They seem to be passing out that ability like candy lately. And it is actually kinda fluffy since the athanc can promote regeneration. |
|
|
|
Post by dirtyharrypotter on Sept 11, 2018 15:29:11 GMT
PT feels like the beast theme to me now. It has all the beasts, the +2" is great and the freebees it gives are better than those in oracles, so I don't mind making do with just one to stack up on beasts. You want a unit for scenario anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 11, 2018 17:36:11 GMT
Grr and or ArrgH This is a really weird rabbit hole... I don't think Legion has "design space" for enough models to fill out Oracles as a solely spell centric theme. As for a Beast theme, they have clearly NOT done that for us and I can only assume its for legit reasons. We can hardly get an Infantry theme that works >.> Reality aside - Proteus in theme Free solos based on Warbeast points (30 per) Only allows spell martyrs, shepherds, forsaken, beast mistress No idea on unit selections... - Solos in this army gain Death Rage I just value Shepherds and Forsaken too much. Keeping them alive from roaming blast damage is a game changer. Death Rage isn't going to stop guns but we're not Cryx (and I'm not dellusional) so no carapace. Even though, how could you find a more fitting faction for said rule? We grow legit plates of carapace and bone on all our warbeasts. But there's no way we are going to outright prevent our beasts from dying, so why not make it hurt when you do kill them? Charge in a pack of shredders and each time you bop one it gets another WM Pow 10 bite before it gets removed. It's adorable. Soldiers might get a good precision strike out of the deal. It just seems fun and might force some interesting choices. Proteus might walk 3 and get a 4" drag. Abby 1 would make killing any beast a real headache. Abby 2, Fyanna, and Lylyth 1 could threaten some good damage. It's a simple rule but could actually end up meaning a lot in the long run... Or we just die miserably to guns...
Though now that I think about it; what about a hordes equivilant of Righteous Vengeance? But then we would need some good chaff infantry allowed in theme. |
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 16:06:06 GMT
So as far as theme benefits... Assuming that the designers will want to operate off of fluff and aesthetics (like giving Nephilim Unyielding?), what thematic element best represents Legion, specifically their Dragonspawn?
Well, they are basically created flesh golems made from mutating Dragon blood. So...
Mutation
Blood
Blight
Draconic
What special rules would best represent one or more of these?
Possible ideas:
Bring back the Blood Creation rule from mk2. Maybe even extend it to include friendly faction models. The latter would do huge amounts to help beast gunlines, which often struggle to manage all their fury. It would also help manage lesser war beasts.
Since there is nothing more incarnate of the Blight than the spawn themselves, I would say something to represent the Blight's influence. Just being near it corrupts so... Given that...
Dark Shroud wouldn't be bad aesthetically and it would greatly help return the Cannon to our Glass Cannon aspect.
Entropic Force? Could greatly help our Nephilim Warriors be relevant.
|
|
thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
|
Post by thelat on Sept 12, 2018 17:01:51 GMT
Legion heavy magic was a lot more viable back in the days of Bethayne MkII.
|
|
|
|
Post by davycannonhound on Sept 12, 2018 17:39:28 GMT
Theme Force: Blighted Creations
- Insert fluff
Model Restrictions:
* Legion Warlocks
* Non-character Legion warbeasts
* Proteus
* Hellmouth
* Throne of Everblight
* Spawning Vessel
* Ice Witches
* Forsaken Solos
* Spell Martyr solos
* Blighted Nyss Shepherd solos
* Sorceress on Hellion solos
* Beast Mistress solos
* Succubus Solos
* Craelix, Fang of Everblight
* Incubi
Theme Benefits:
* You get one minion unit/solo blah blah blah
* For every 30 points of Legion warbeasts in this army, you can add one Legion solo, one spawning vessel unit, or one Legion lesser warbeast to the army free of cost. Free models do not count towards free points.
* Legion warbeasts in this army gain Dark Shroud.
* Legion warbeasts in this army gain Blood Creation. (Blood Creation - When a model with Blood Creation frenzies, it will not frenzy onto its battlegroup controller.)
|
|
|
|
Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 12, 2018 18:56:58 GMT
[nit-picking]
blood creation is probably the least useful rule We've ever had. I've yet to have it come up in any game ever. My caster or beast mistress is never going to be in front of my beast. IF I play ravagores and they could possibly frenzy I can change their facing to prevent LOS. The rule would also never be opened up to affect all faction models.
Dark shroud I don't think is thematic and just would never happen. A universal +2 damage to all of our beasts would cause more outrage and tears than Anamag did. No matter how cute it is or how we want to hit real damage numbers I cannot imagine it ever happening.
Lastly the support solos in that are just all over the place. No infantry unit for the incubii. No archers for Craelix. What even makes Craelix applicable to the theme? He's not that blighted, he's just a Succubus species. I get that he's good but there's little reason for his inclusion otherwise. Ice witches also seem shoe horned just to get the puppet master bonus rather than a real fluff reason.
[/nit-picking]
Why can't we just fix CotD and Ravens?
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 19:31:23 GMT
[nit-picking] blood creation is probably the least useful rule We've ever had. I've yet to have it come up in any game ever. My caster or beast mistress is never going to be in front of my beast. IF I play ravagores and they could possibly frenzy I can change their facing to prevent LOS. The rule would also never be opened up to affect all faction models. Dark shroud I don't think is thematic and just would never happen. A universal +2 damage to all of our beasts would cause more outrage and tears than Anamag did. No matter how cute it is or how we want to hit real damage numbers I cannot imagine it ever happening. Lastly the support solos in that are just all over the place. No infantry unit for the incubii. No archers for Craelix. What even makes Craelix applicable to the theme? He's not that blighted, he's just a Succubus species. I get that he's good but there's little reason for his inclusion otherwise. Ice witches also seem shoe horned just to get the puppet master bonus rather than a real fluff reason. [/nit-picking] Why can't we just fix CotD and Ravens? Snarky answer: because we respect the OP  I think a variation on Blood Creation that helps us guide our frenzies could be good. And it certainly scratches the fluff itch the designers are looking for. Benefits as strong as Dark Shroud have been given before, but our faction doesn't start with "cry" and end in "x" so we couldn't get that. It was the best I could come up with without making a new rule that could be given to beasts that felt "corrupting presence". If I had to go with "new rule", I would probably do some kind of "ending your activation in melee reach of gives corrosion". It would kind of emphasize the use of lessers as you could spread more Blight around. |
|
|
|
Post by slaughtersun on Sept 12, 2018 19:34:53 GMT
How about: non flying / serpentine legion warbeasts gain carapace?
|
|
gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
|
Post by gordo on Sept 12, 2018 20:02:36 GMT
How about: non flying / serpentine legion warbeasts gain carapace? That benefit is way too strong, PP would never give that out to any faction. |
|
|
|
Post by slaughtersun on Sept 12, 2018 21:43:13 GMT
How about: non flying / serpentine legion warbeasts gain carapace? That benefit is way too strong, PP would never give that out to any faction. Qft |
|
|
|
Post by davycannonhound on Sept 12, 2018 22:58:30 GMT
Lastly the support solos in that are just all over the place. No infantry unit for the incubii. No archers for Craelix. What even makes Craelix applicable to the theme? He's not that blighted, he's just a Succubus species. I get that he's good but there's little reason for his inclusion otherwise. Ice witches also seem shoe horned just to get the puppet master bonus rather than a real fluff reason. Ice witches are a good support unit, and I was trying to find a way to include some form of unit (aside from the spawning vessel). Craelix and the Incubi are there because they're both blighted creations (Craelix was a maybe to be honest, I just threw him in there cause I felt like there needed to be more warrior model options). Incubi can spawn from solos and units anyways. Pull one out of an ice witch, a forsaken, or a spawning vessel acolyte. |
|
|
|
Post by davycannonhound on Sept 12, 2018 23:01:39 GMT
Why can't we just fix CotD and Ravens? Because those threads have already been made before (I'm also working on a completely revamped theme force system. Done with all the Hordes factions, currently working my way through warmachine.) |
|
