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Post by frumiousbandersnatch on Sept 6, 2018 2:19:52 GMT
If a model can run, charge, slam, trample, etc. without spending focus or being forced (due to one of any number of spells, abilities, or special rules) must it do so without spending focus or being forced? Or can that model opt to still spend a focus point or be forced and gain a fury point in order to perform the action?
I wasn't quite sure how this might work out as most of these abilities that allow so-called "free" charges/runs/other actions are wording saying "this model can ____" and most other optional abilities I am aware of seem to use the "may" language.
If anyone has any info it would be appreciate, thanks.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358 
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Post by germanicus on Sept 6, 2018 7:39:12 GMT
This is usually a non-issue since everyone places a lot of stock in Fury/Focus efficiency, but under most circumstances, when a model can charge for free, at the moment they declare a charge, it does so for free. If not and no-one notices or corrects, it's put down to player error (from most perspectives, and this is the key point, it makes no in-game or meta sense to pay for the charge/slam etc. if it can be done for free) and can be back-tracked depending on circumstances (judge ruling, or it's a casual game etc.). For Hordes, if you need the Fury, just rile, and for Warmachine, if you put in too much Focus, it is wasted. This becomes relevant only in very cornercase instances (like Orion's feat, Energy Siphon etc.). In those cases, you are right in where they use the word 'can'. You can choose not to Force or spend a Focus.
What you may be confusing it with (wording, so not entirely sure) is stuff like the Seether which MUST run or charge when it activates, but does so for free.
Out of interest, what prompts the question?
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Post by frumiousbandersnatch on Sept 7, 2018 2:54:55 GMT
This is usually a non-issue since everyone places a lot of stock in Fury/Focus efficiency, but under most circumstances, when a model can charge for free, at the moment they declare a charge, it does so for free. If not and no-one notices or corrects, it's put down to player error (from most perspectives, and this is the key point, it makes no in-game or meta sense to pay for the charge/slam etc. if it can be done for free) and can be back-tracked depending on circumstances (judge ruling, or it's a casual game etc.). For Hordes, if you need the Fury, just rile, and for Warmachine, if you put in too much Focus, it is wasted. This becomes relevant only in very cornercase instances (like Orion's feat, Energy Siphon etc.). In those cases, you are right in where they use the word 'can'. You can choose not to Force or spend a Focus. What you may be confusing it with (wording, so not entirely sure) is stuff like the Seether which MUST run or charge when it activates, but does so for free. Out of interest, what prompts the question? This is a somewhat cornercase scenario, but it came up in a game where I was playing against a convergence player who had one or more jacks that could charge without spending focus. My opponent brought up the question in the first place as it could affect induction. e.g. can I opt to still spend focus in order to induct to this jack over here? I did not have a good answer at the time, but it got me thinking about the broader implications such as what you mentioned with Orion's feat and a few other rules that coincide with spending focus/fury or forcing. We did end up playing it that game as thought you could not opt to spend focus/force to perform an action you would otherwise be performing for free. It was a weird thing to have come up and worth digging into, though. I appreciate the response. |
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Sept 7, 2018 3:50:08 GMT
This is a somewhat cornercase scenario, but it came up in a game where I was playing against a convergence player who had one or more jacks that could charge without spending focus. My opponent brought up the question in the first place as it could affect induction. e.g. can I opt to still spend focus in order to induct to this jack over here? I did not have a good answer at the time, but it got me thinking about the broader implications such as what you mentioned with Orion's feat and a few other rules that coincide with spending focus/fury or forcing. We did end up playing it that game as thought you could not opt to spend focus/force to perform an action you would otherwise be performing for free. It was a weird thing to have come up and worth digging into, though. I appreciate the response. Luckily, there's a fairly solid demarcation between 'can' and 'must' and the word 'may' (AFAIK) never appears. And it would depend on the wording of the rule that allowed the Convergence player's vector to charge without spending focus. My inclination is that it says 'can' (Iron Aggression from Axis for example). Under those circumstances, spend as you wish to get max induction, provided you simply do what the rules say you 'must'. |
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