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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 18, 2018 20:37:15 GMT
So Lylyth herself gets to choose where and how she commits. She can decide where she wants the line of engagement to be. With speed 7 she herself she is stupidly to get where she wants to be. Pathfinder and eyeless sight gives her freedom across the battle field. That speed however easily walks herself out of control range of models that need it. She then has to camp for saftey as her short command range means she's going to be close to that engagement to make the most of her feat and beasts.
Thagrosh however is much safer and easier to apply his kit. A massive ctrl concealment buff. A 10" of -2 STR for the melee punch fest. A substantial to outright scary personal melee output. A really powerful Nuke that on a low action turn he can throw out and possibly crush models. An attrition disadvantage reset feat when you inevitably lose a beast. He gets to bring Typhon. Doesn't have to rely on taking a bolt thrower. Has better fury management. Gets to cast an animi for free. Just overall a great caster. I continually call him a Gold Standard. Too bad Thagrosh 2 and most all our other casters fall so short of such a comprehensive design.
So why would I want to play Lylyth 1 over Thagrosh 1?
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Post by cainuslupus on Sept 20, 2018 17:57:59 GMT
Why did you say you have no Shepherd and Succubi in CotD?
I believe OoA is better for Lylo1. Thrones, Ravagores, Terraphs and Carniveans (10" sprays kill casters). Lylyth likes Hex Hunters and apparition makes them way better.
Why Lylo1 rather than Thagrosh1? While objectivelly Thags1 is way better caster, Lylyh1 has explosive assassination turn. Also Pursuit has potential. Lylyth1 and Thags1 are for different pairings. Lylo can be brick breaker while Thags1 can have brick of his own.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Sept 20, 2018 20:01:22 GMT
Why did you say you have no Shepherd and Succubi in CotD? Because I had not fit any into the list. That is indeed on me. I believe OoA is better for Lylo1. Thrones, Ravagores, Terraphs and Carniveans (10" sprays kill casters). Lylyth likes Hex Hunters and apparition makes them way better. I had a hard time having too few models that didn't hit hard enough. Double Ravagore, throne, and Scythean was too many points in too few models. In CotD Raptors and swordsmen are better for getting to multiple targets spread across a battlefield. It's also about volume of attacks. Why Lylo1 rather than Thagrosh1? While objectivelly Thags1 is way better caster, Lylyh1 has explosive assassination turn. Also Pursuit has potential. Lylyth1 and Thags1 are for different pairings. Lylo can be brick breaker while Thags1 can have brick of his own. Exactly. It's what I'm wrestling with right now. Again, Armored Corp is the thorn in my side. L1 answers it more profoundly. But in other situations L1 falls short. Where as Thagrosh is just better all round and has a larger margin for error and/or bad match up. Still wanting more people's feedback and experiences.
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Post by shroomvolcano on Sept 21, 2018 15:35:41 GMT
So, spitballing here, what do people think about something like:
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Ravens of War
[Lylyth 1] Lylyth, Herald of Everblight [+30] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] Grotesque Assassin [0(4)] Spell Martyr [1] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] The Forsaken [0(4)] The Forsaken [4] Grotesque Raiders (max) [12] Hellmouth [6] Hellmouth [6] Strider Blightblades [10] Strider Blightblades [10]
It's in Raven's, which is certainly an odd duck right now, but I feel like this list has a ton of scenario power. Hellmouths to tarpit and contest zones, 5 Bolt Throwers to Thunderbolt and even take out heavies under Parasite, and no less than 3 units of super fast, terrain ignoring Ambushers to really mess with where and when the opponent can score/order of activations. My biggest worry is Fury management, but with double Forsaken and a Gobber Chef I feel like it's doable. This list really really wants to go first, and I think against really infantry heavy-lists there's just not enough clearing power, but it might have legs into most combined-arms or medium-based infantry lists, especially slow lists like AC.
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Post by davycannonhound on Sept 21, 2018 16:21:06 GMT
So, spitballing here, what do people think about something like: Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Ravens of War [Lylyth 1] Lylyth, Herald of Everblight [+30] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] Grotesque Assassin [0(4)] Spell Martyr [1] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] The Forsaken [0(4)] The Forsaken [4] Grotesque Raiders (max) [12] Hellmouth [6] Hellmouth [6] Strider Blightblades [10] Strider Blightblades [10] It's in Raven's, which is certainly an odd duck right now, but I feel like this list has a ton of scenario power. Hellmouths to tarpit and contest zones, 5 Bolt Throwers to Thunderbolt and even take out heavies under Parasite, and no less than 3 units of super fast, terrain ignoring Ambushers to really mess with where and when the opponent can score/order of activations. My biggest worry is Fury management, but with double Forsaken and a Gobber Chef I feel like it's doable. This list really really wants to go first, and I think against really infantry heavy-lists there's just not enough clearing power, but it might have legs into most combined-arms or medium-based infantry lists, especially slow lists like AC. I think you'll want to fit in a Seraph. Seraphs have flare and slipstream, both extremely useful for Lyllyth's gameplan (will also save you buying that many Bolt Throwers). You might also want to consider Raptors with her. They're more expensive, but even with the two forsaken, thats probably too many warbeasts for lyllyth to handle. (Usually the "golden combo" of units is Max Raptors, Max Grotesque Raiders, and Blightblades). That said, Grotesque banshees are going to love her feat, so if you really like the terrain ignoring infantry, I'd suggest them.
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Post by snotling on Sept 21, 2018 17:01:55 GMT
For Lylyth1 double raptors, i prefer cotd:
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Children of the Dragon
[Lylyth 1] Lylyth, Herald of Everblight [+30] - Azrael [21] - Nephilim Bolt Thrower [11] - Zuriel [18] Annyssa Ryvaal [8] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Blighted Nyss Warlord [0(5)] Craelix, Fang of Everblight [0(6)] Spell Martyr [1] Blackfrost Shard [9] Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18] Blighted Nyss Raptors (max) [18]
If you dont loose the raptors too early, the list onerounds gargs and (living) battle engines with no problem.
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Post by cainuslupus on Sept 23, 2018 9:13:39 GMT
Why did you say you have no Shepherd and Succubi in CotD? Because I had not fit any into the list. That is indeed on me. I believe OoA is better for Lylo1. Thrones, Ravagores, Terraphs and Carniveans (10" sprays kill casters). Lylyth likes Hex Hunters and apparition makes them way better. I had a hard time having too few models that didn't hit hard enough. Double Ravagore, throne, and Scythean was too many points in too few models. In CotD Raptors and swordsmen are better for getting to multiple targets spread across a battlefield. It's also about volume of attacks. Why Lylo1 rather than Thagrosh1? While objectivelly Thags1 is way better caster, Lylyh1 has explosive assassination turn. Also Pursuit has potential. Lylyth1 and Thags1 are for different pairings. Lylo can be brick breaker while Thags1 can have brick of his own. Exactly. It's what I'm wrestling with right now. Again, Armored Corp is the thorn in my side. L1 answers it more profoundly. But in other situations L1 falls short. Where as Thagrosh is just better all round and has a larger margin for error and/or bad match up. Still wanting more people's feedback and experiences. Actually, I plan to use Croak Raiders as second unit (first being Hexhunters). You can take them anywhere and they allow you to play OoA with more infantry. With Parasite we're looking at boosted P+S 14 cont. Fire shoots. I'm not sure about Ravagore (maybe one), don't even think about Scythean, but Carnivean and Throne are money. Sprays kill casters, especially (base) Pow 14 - no cover and no Shieldguard, which is huge. This is where Lylo1 Feat comes into play - gives sick assasination potential to our pieces. This is my take.
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