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Post by bluebarren on Aug 31, 2018 22:25:17 GMT
So I've been playing around with kraye in few different variations and wanted to know peoples thoughts on him in GD
I'm trying this tonight
Kraye
3x centurions
Finn
Gibbs
Dog
Ragman
2xbusters
Express team
Min commandos+ca+3wa
Aiyana and holt + Murdoch
- No squire means kraye probably has to be a little further forward than usual.
-The busters more than likely babysit kraye but can also play as late game beaters.
-Commandos are flexible and with the damage buffs in the list can threaten most models on the table. **Probable countermeasures target**
-Gibbs keeps folks alive as well as lets ragman keep up with the jacks.
-had 2 points, figured the dog made sense, plus, worst case scenario it lays in wait to trigger flank.
I'm sure it's not totally optimal, but it looks fun and hopefully isn't just stupid.
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Post by Rork on Sept 1, 2018 9:01:36 GMT
I think you get a lot of overlap of usefulness with his feat. Plenty of things can apply it and anything that isn't purely for support can benefit from it. Countermeasure on commandos has to potentially hilarious, although I'm still not convinced by WA on them (even with Quick Work).
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Post by bluebarren on Sept 1, 2018 14:48:04 GMT
Played it into convergence with Lucas, PA and 4 heavies. The amount of free shield guards feels kind of stupid in general but it makes Kraye particularly sad. Also only having 3 heavies in that matchup made things difficult since my commandos were somewhat nullified by the shield guards...
I definitely missed the squire and arlan, because kraye was STRAPPED. I had to use all my focus and feat just to kill the PA (horsepower+2 fully loaded cents) and all that really resulted in was me losing 2 heavies to his remaining dudes.
You arent convinced that the WA are good in general or in a kraye list? I've found them to usually be the workhorse of the unit. I definitely prefer a min unit with CA and WA to a max unit without and it's only like 5 more points, not an insignificant investment but it adds a lot of flexibility.
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Post by Rork on Sept 1, 2018 18:33:50 GMT
You arent convinced that the WA are good in general or in a kraye list? I've found them to usually be the workhorse of the unit. I definitely prefer a min unit with CA and WA to a max unit without and it's only like 5 more points, not an insignificant investment but it adds a lot of flexibility. In general. I suppose it's just the case that I'm sending the commandos after hard targets rather than trying to squish infantry - Fury and Mission Objective crush heavies quite easily, but doesn't give me much scope for quick work. (And I suppose I'm always trying to live the dream with Finn when it comes to infantry killing!) |
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 5, 2018 15:59:56 GMT
I've tried it before and just as you said the main problems are not having enough heavy hitting power and Kraye being mega focus strapped. I also find that GD in general requires casters like Siege2 and Haley3 that can shore up weaknesses or beef up their strengths to insane levels. Commandos don't really have much staying power, even though they are hard to remove overall, but once they or your other front line infantry are gone, your heavies tend to get overwhelmed fast because you don't have the volume of attacks or powerful enough attacks to do anything into quite a few lists. During these situations, I'm always convinced that baby haley or a couple trenchers with Fury would be a loooooot better than what Kraye is trying to do. He really only belongs in HM and I think there's a possibility of him in SD, but I'm still working on that.
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Post by bluebarren on Sept 5, 2018 18:50:36 GMT
I agree that heavy metal is pretty much the place to be, I don't see storm division at all; I tried it once or twice but it just felt bad.
Sons isn't bad either, aiming for 2 free solos it still gives you a lot of points in the BG with the added toolboxyness of gunmages. AND you can still take merc solos for more damage buffs or whatever you're looking for.
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Post by scarecrow on Sept 5, 2018 20:30:10 GMT
I'm still working to get all the models to actually put it on the table, but I've had this idea for quite some time:
Kraye
Sylys
Centurion x2
Hammersmith x2
Ironclad
Finn
Commandos (min)
Officer
Scattergunner x2
Trencher Combat Engineers
Lynus + Edrea
You get five heavies, still with some Centurion board control/table presence, and the commandos take care of single wound infantry of all kinds. Plus the scattergunners, with the Mission Objective minifeat and veteran leader can apply the feat very accurately with their sprays.
The downside is no damage buff, but the idea is quantity over quality. If you slam enough stuff or knock it down and reposition away, you might not always have to outright kill to be up in the trade anyways.
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 11, 2018 16:48:20 GMT
You get five heavies, still with some Centurion board control/table presence, and the commandos take care of single wound infantry of all kinds. Plus the scattergunners, with the Mission Objective minifeat and veteran leader can apply the feat very accurately with their sprays. The downside is no damage buff, but the idea is quantity over quality. If you slam enough stuff or knock it down and reposition away, you might not always have to outright kill to be up in the trade anyways. I have tried this idea, but it's pretty easy to counter by opponents that know how to out-position it, as they can always put multiple models close to the heavies you want to knock down so that you can't reposition without taking free strikes, and a lot of times, even if you are knocking things down and moving back 5, you're still within 5 inches of the rest of the stuff in their front line, and now they're going to charge you and remove that piece. It only works well into obscenely low model count lists, and even then, it's super fragile and focus strapped, unlike Gaspy3 slayer spam that has carapace, 9 heavies, and a feat turn with massive amounts of souls. I really wanted it to be a thing, but it just isn't. I think SD is probably a waste of time as well, even with Stormclads, it's just too much of a glass cannon. The only way he gets enough output and staying power is by having a minimum of 2 Centurions and ideally probably 4 in heavy metal with a squire and Arlan to help with focus. As for applying the feat with guns, you really don't need it. I've never had a problem applying Kraye's feat where it really needs to go with just him and a charger. |
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Post by elmagnifico on Sept 11, 2018 18:48:35 GMT
I've thought about playing a weird, inverted Kraye list in SD, which turns him into a delivery caster. Put Countermeasure on something fast, like a minuteman, Storm Lances, or Murdoch'd AD mercs (Press Gangers?). Turn off your opponent's shooting, and use that to deliver a bunch of squishy storm knights right into your opponent's face. Take a stormclad or two to just have a super efficient battlegroup that tears up the late game. Probably wouldn't work in practice.
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Post by scarecrow on Sept 17, 2018 21:03:41 GMT
You get five heavies, still with some Centurion board control/table presence, and the commandos take care of single wound infantry of all kinds. Plus the scattergunners, with the Mission Objective minifeat and veteran leader can apply the feat very accurately with their sprays. The downside is no damage buff, but the idea is quantity over quality. If you slam enough stuff or knock it down and reposition away, you might not always have to outright kill to be up in the trade anyways. I have tried this idea, but it's pretty easy to counter by opponents that know how to out-position it, as they can always put multiple models close to the heavies you want to knock down so that you can't reposition without taking free strikes, and a lot of times, even if you are knocking things down and moving back 5, you're still within 5 inches of the rest of the stuff in their front line, and now they're going to charge you and remove that piece. It only works well into obscenely low model count lists, and even then, it's super fragile and focus strapped, unlike Gaspy3 slayer spam that has carapace, 9 heavies, and a feat turn with massive amounts of souls. The thought was that a Hammersmith can slam something, not follow up, and still Repo 5" backward. Or slam at a neat angle, follow up, and Repo to be in an awkward spot. If they can't charge and are already spending focus to shake knockdown, that's a lot less damage you're taking. I plan on trying it out and seeing how I like it. Even if it's not the perfect list creation, it sure looks fun. |
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Sept 19, 2018 3:16:20 GMT
Experience is meta contingent, but I had great fun and output with Kraye in Gravediggers. My secret sauce was Anastasia. A +2 bonus to the starting roll is bonkers good when you have that much mobility, reach, and advance deploy.
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Post by sludgeogre on Sept 25, 2018 17:01:24 GMT
Experience is meta contingent, but I had great fun and output with Kraye in Gravediggers. My secret sauce was Anastasia. A +2 bonus to the starting roll is bonkers good when you have that much mobility, reach, and advance deploy. I have a few people I play against regularly where I've thought of doing this in GD with just Grenadiers and Minutemen and just going ham up the table straight at their faces for fun. Seems like bonkers fun. |
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Sept 25, 2018 21:02:32 GMT
Experience is meta contingent, but I had great fun and output with Kraye in Gravediggers. My secret sauce was Anastasia. A +2 bonus to the starting roll is bonkers good when you have that much mobility, reach, and advance deploy. I have a few people I play against regularly where I've thought of doing this in GD with just Grenadiers and Minutemen and just going ham up the table straight at their faces for fun. Seems like bonkers fun. It is bonkers fun. The +2 advantage with the list is insane. If you roll a 4+, you will at a minimum tie, unless your opponent also has a bonus. You then get to choose side or initiative, and some lists just break immediately with the wrong side, or going second. |
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