|
Post by elladan52 on Aug 28, 2018 13:53:35 GMT
I am compiling a list of models that a new player should expand to after purchasing a battle box for all factions to bring them up to a 15 to 35 point level game. To be clear, this would be for new locals that are looking for some direction if they aren't already excited by any one thing in particular. I know what I would recommend for my own factions (Ret and Skorne), but I need help with the others. I am mainly looking for staple support models and things that can go into most themes. I'm not really looking for casters, since that will be more determined by the new player. I understand that most units and things will need to be determined by theme interest, but most warjacks/beasts are universal so I am looking for those.
Any suggestions?
Cygnar-Squire, Junior, Arlen Cryx- Khador- Protectorate-Choir,Heirophant Retribution-Arcanist Mechanics, Eyriss1 (I'm actually not sure what else) Trollbloods- Circle- Legion- Skorne-Paingiver Beast Handlers, Agonizer, Krea
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 28, 2018 13:57:54 GMT
Personally I don't like the idea of trying to tell new players what they "should" get. Let them grab whatever takes their fancy! Or let them discuss their preferences online to get tailored advice - as many new players already seem to do. Presenting a pre-selected path of growth could stifle creativity (something that I think themes are already doing enough of, but that's a whole other can of worms).
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Aug 28, 2018 14:01:53 GMT
Honestly best kist of recomendations come down to.
Caster attachments, repair models, focus boosting models, and then control or support models.
Example is my oppinion of retribution options are. House Shyeel Artificer, Hydra, and two Archanist solos. (No sylis as not each caster benifits)
For Cryx i would state Warwitch Siren, Pistol Wraiths, and The Withershadow Combine.
For Cygnar i would say Squire, Arlin Strangeways. And a heavy Warjack kit of your choice.
Khador i could say Beserker Kit (explain a budget heavy), Greylord Forge Seer, and Grey Lord Ternions with Wardog.
Heck even Menoth would be Chior, Vassle of menoth, and Vassel Machanic with faction Caster Attachment.
Anything beyond a recomendation of a second heavy jack (or a light beserker in khadors case) and support solos i feel would give the players a bad taste. By just upping the battlegroups (which they are still learning at the 15 to 25 pt stages) could be harmfull.
Having a new player see how synergies can improve a battlegroups output directly on the game is a good start.
Alternatively you can also play casterless 25pt games once solos and units have been purchased to new playes get two distinctive synergy playstyles befor going into a full game.
FYI: i taught friends how to play by doing battlegroup games upping to 25pts with support models only.
Then playing unit based games with no battlegroups with solos.
Finnally merging the two together... (hind sight that might be why my friends better than me)
|
|
|
Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 28, 2018 14:09:20 GMT
For Cygnar you want the 3 most common support solos
Squire Junior Arlan
I would probably then go for a Centurion/Hammersmith/Avenger kit and magnetise the arms.
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Aug 28, 2018 14:26:37 GMT
Legion of everblight is a tough topic to crack as the faction really has as many diffrent ways to play as models within, but basing off of the starter kits.
Based souly off of popular utility models one may recomend the play look into Hellmouths, Neraph, The Forsake or Blighted Nyss Shepherd, and Spell Martyrs.
Trolls can be equally as frustrating with recommendations, it may come down to Stone scribe unit with an attachment, a rune bear caster attachment, and a dire troll chasis kit.
I also dont see Eryss 1, 2, or 3 as a should get solo simply because to me she is bleh. Yes she is a good model but does not help to improve the game as a whole.
Same can be said for your skorn recomendations, both the Basilisk Krea and Agonizer are good but you missed the greatest support tech skorn has to offer in...
The cyclops Shaman. Its ability to use the animi of any warbeast within 7 inches of it is huge add to the mix craft talisman action to augment a warlocks spell range and its a no brainer.
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 28, 2018 14:41:26 GMT
For Cryx i would state Warwitch Siren, Pistol Wraiths, and The Withershadow Combine. I disagree on this and would argue that Cryx doesn't really have any staples. Jacks are entirely unrestricted across themes, but most other models go into 2 themes at most. The ones you mentioned go in IM/BI, IM/GF and IM/BI respectively. I would very much recommend them getting a box of Nightwretches, as there is only the one Deathripper in the battle box. You also can never go wrong with a Stalker. Perhaps buying a Machine Wraith or 2, as well as some Soul Trappers might not be a bad idea as they are the exception that go into 3 themes (as well as Iron Mongers, Necrotechs and Scrap Thralls, but they have more niche applications). Staple Mercenaries would be Cephalyx Overlords, as they are Partisan and can go into all themes. Buying an all-in-one or theme box is a good deal if the theme interests them.
|
|
|
Post by hocestbellum on Aug 28, 2018 14:44:04 GMT
For Khador, in terms of jacks, if they get two of the Juggernaut multijack kits and magnetize them they are well covered. It's got three of our most popular jacks in it.
Also, Kayazy Eliminators can be taken in any theme list, and are also cheap in both points and money. Plus, they're really, really good.
Solos are a bit too theme dependent
|
|
|
Post by onijet01 on Aug 28, 2018 14:48:14 GMT
For Cryx i would state Warwitch Siren, Pistol Wraiths, and The Withershadow Combine. I disagree on this and would argue that Cryx doesn't really have any staples. Jacks are entirely unrestricted across themes, but most other models go into 2 themes at most. The ones you mentioned go in IM/BI, IM/GF and IM/BI respectively. I would very much recommend them getting a box of Nightwretches, as there is only the one Deathripper in the battle box. You also can never go wrong with a Stalker. Perhaps buying a Machine Wraith or 2, as well as some Soul Trappers might not be a bad idea as they are the exception that go into 3 themes (as well as Iron Mongers, Necrotechs and Scrap Thralls, but they have more niche applications). Staple Mercenaries would be Cephalyx Overlords, as they are Partisan and can go into all themes. Buying an all-in-one or theme box is a good deal if the theme interests them. My recomendation was not about staples but models that help to compliment a battlebox or the cryx half of a two player starter kit. The kit comes with a unit of Bane Warriors. The recomendation was to allow some control and support killing options into the list. I mean hell throwing units as must buys is wat i was trying to avoid. Its easer to recoment smaller solo purchases for players and easyer to explain the reasoning why over units. Also recomendations should come from non-themed ideas as forcing themes to early for new players is hazardous to their enjoyment of the game.
|
|
|
Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 28, 2018 14:58:06 GMT
I mean hell throwing units as must buys is wat i was trying to avoid. Its easer to recoment smaller solo purchases for players and easyer to explain the reasoning why over units. Also recomendations should come from non-themed ideas as forcing themes to early for new players is hazardous to their enjoyment of the game. I agree completely, but unfortunately eventually they will come to themes and realize that all their models either go into the most crappy theme (even though I would argue that it's a good/fun one to start out with), being Infernal Machines, or are all over the place. The safer pick would be to go with a pair of arc nodes, perhaps another light and then go from there. That's also why the only unit I would recommend is the Overlords, because they fit well into any list. Machine Wraiths are also a great way to get into Cryx as they teach the value of Incorporeal and have a very sneaky and controlling nature.
|
|
|
Post by gargs454 on Aug 28, 2018 15:04:03 GMT
For Protectorate Choir is a must have. After that it really becomes a matter of opinion. Very little in Protectorate is outright terrible. The main problem with the Protectorate advice is that assuming you are not wanting to change casters, Malekus is fairly low on the Protectorate power curve. If you are adamant about staying with Malekus then I would probably start gearing the purchases toward a Guardians list (TFG, Daughters, Flamebringers, etc.) but then Guardians is also not really a top theme either.
So in short, start with Choir then decide what theme appeals to you and gear purchases toward that theme.
|
|
|
Post by elladan52 on Aug 28, 2018 15:59:05 GMT
Personally I don't like the idea of trying to tell new players what they "should" get. Let them grab whatever takes their fancy! Or let them discuss their preferences online to get tailored advice - as many new players already seem to do. Presenting a pre-selected path of growth could stifle creativity (something that I think themes are already doing enough of, but that's a whole other can of worms). I mean, ok, but I'm smart enough to not shove this down people's throats. Also notice how I mentioned that this will be determined by the player? I just need some helpful tips for potential new players when they inevitably ask.
|
|
|
Post by elladan52 on Aug 28, 2018 16:12:42 GMT
I really like the suggestions for attachments, and partisan merc options (like Kayazy eliminators) are also a great idea. Eliminators especially because they bring something very different to the battlebox.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 28, 2018 16:38:33 GMT
Personally I don't like the idea of trying to tell new players what they "should" get. Let them grab whatever takes their fancy! Or let them discuss their preferences online to get tailored advice - as many new players already seem to do. Presenting a pre-selected path of growth could stifle creativity (something that I think themes are already doing enough of, but that's a whole other can of worms). I mean, ok, but I'm smart enough to not shove this down people's throats. Also notice how I mentioned that this will be determined by the player? I just need some helpful tips for potential new players when they inevitably ask. You didn't really give us very much context. I assumed this would posted online somewhere as some sort of "new player guide", which is something I feel... well, I've already expressed my feelings on that. Even if you aren't "shoving advice down people's throats", new players are in a state where they are likely to place too much weight on the first piece of advice the read or hear, which could set the direction of their hobby for a long time, so a simplistic "this is what you should do next" can fail to communicate the fact that they actually have a lot of options. If on the other hand it's a direct response to people actually asking you for advice, or in preparation for people asking you for advice because you expect that to happen for some reason (again, you didn't describe the situation really), then yes, that's a different matter. In which case you really need to ask them "what theme do you fancy?", at least in some factions, as outside of warjacks/beasts (which to some extent the player already has because of the battlebox), models tend to be locked to specific themes these days. Or just direct them to the forums where they can get more personalised advice for factions that you aren't familiar enough with to offer them advice for. Although I understand that there's pitfalls to this approach: forumites will inevitably suggest the entire faction roster as a starting point as each member chimes in with his own personal favourites, the forums might be more competitively oriented than you are guiding your local group to be, etc.
|
|
|
Post by elladan52 on Aug 28, 2018 16:46:18 GMT
I mean, ok, but I'm smart enough to not shove this down people's throats. Also notice how I mentioned that this will be determined by the player? I just need some helpful tips for potential new players when they inevitably ask. You didn't really give us very much context. I assumed this would posted online somewhere as some sort of "new player guide", which is something I feel... well, I've already expressed my feelings on that. Even if you aren't "shoving advice down people's throats", new players are in a state where they are likely to place too much weight on the first piece of advice the read or hear, which could set the direction of their hobby for a long time, so a simplistic "this is what you should do next" can fail to communicate the fact that they actually have a lot of options. If on the other hand it's a direct response to people actually asking you for advice, or in preparation for people asking you for advice because you expect that to happen for some reason (again, you didn't describe the situation really), then yes, that's a different matter. In which case you really need to ask them "what theme do you fancy?", at least in some factions, as outside of warjacks/beasts (which to some extent the player already has because of the battlebox), models tend to be locked to specific themes these days. Or just direct them to the forums where they can get more personalised advice for factions that you aren't familiar enough with to offer them advice for. Although I understand that there's pitfalls to this approach: forumites will inevitably suggest the entire faction roster as a starting point as each member chimes in with his own personal favourites, the forums might be more competitively oriented than you are guiding your local group to be, etc. Because it wasn't clear, I will clarify here: this is for my potential new local players, and this advice will not be thrown at them out of nowhere. You have correctly identified the pitfalls I have already seen in directing them online. So do you have models you want to contribute or not? Keep in mind, whether or not I recommend them will be personally tailored to the person involved, but I would like some generally applicable models from each faction.
|
|
|
Post by Soul Samurai on Aug 28, 2018 17:06:58 GMT
Because it wasn't clear, I will clarify here: this is for my potential new local players, and this advice will not be thrown at them out of nowhere. You have correctly identified the pitfalls I have already seen in directing them online. So do you have models you want to contribute or not? Keep in mind, whether or not I recommend them will be personally tailored to the person involved, but I would like some generally applicable models from each faction. Fair enough. And no, I have no advice other than to always magnetise your warjacks.
|
|