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Post by jagius021 on Aug 29, 2018 12:32:02 GMT
Okay check this. A UA that goes on any friendly faction living unit. Makes them count as immortals. Gives a buff of some kind. He's preparing them for the most glorious death and thus their immortalization. FA C, or 1. Then you can have more diversity into a list as your slingers find immortal status.
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Post by thirdorbital on Aug 29, 2018 12:32:33 GMT
I can't imagine them reworking the entire soul mechanic but a solo with a Hollow-like "soul cage" spell that worked on an enemy unit would be interesting.
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Post by thirdorbital on Aug 29, 2018 12:35:59 GMT
Okay check this. A UA that goes on any friendly faction living unit. Makes them count as immortals. Gives a buff of some kind. He's preparing them for the most glorious death and thus their immortalization. FA C, or 1. Then you can have more diversity into a list as your slingers find immortal status. Interesting idea but I'm sure that PPS wants the "design space" to sell new models instead of letting us use ones we already have. It would also defeat the balancing purpose of themes if you could bring basically any unit into the Exalted.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Aug 29, 2018 12:39:40 GMT
So we know of two solos. I doubt there will be much more new stuff. Maybe 1-2 other things. So what I am hoping for is buffs to the existing stuff. If I had to wishlist it'd be tough for Immortals and +2 POW and +1 SPD for AGs. Now the list can actually get across the talbe without getting shot 227 times in the face. And it can also deal damage when it gets there.
At least it will be a cheap CID.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Aug 29, 2018 18:16:04 GMT
What I don't understand at all is how AGs and Hakaar aren't Weaponmasters. PP continuously points out that cards need to be fluffy. That is fine with me, but make the heroic Skorne warrior dudes with 8/9 MAT Weonmasters. Hell, I think there MAT 6 Weaponmasters in the game.
I know soul-boosting is supposed to reflect how they do work, and Weaponmaster would make them freakishly scary in melee for the cost. I still think it's fitting, and they could then be tuned in points accordingly.
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Post by thirdorbital on Aug 29, 2018 18:33:01 GMT
What I don't understand at all is how AGs and Hakaar aren't Weaponmasters. PP continuously points out that cards need to be fluffy. That is fine with me, but make the heroic Skorne warrior dudes with 8/9 MAT Weonmasters. Hell, I think there MAT 6 Weaponmasters in the game. I know soul-boosting is supposed to reflect how they do work, and Weaponmaster would make them freakishly scary in melee for the cost. I still think it's fitting, and they could then be tuned in points accordingly. Just in general, I would expect a dogganm statue to hit like a truck and maybe be a little less dexterous. Instead we have hyperaccurrate but kind of pillowfisted stone dudes. Seems unintuitive to me.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Aug 29, 2018 18:51:55 GMT
From the IKRPG Skorne Empire book, Immortals are usually just the entourage of actual ancestor heroes. They aren't heroes per se, usually just dudes that died near AGs and had their souls preserved. As such, 6 MAT, P+S13 non-weaponmasters is fine.
The AGs however are the real deal, and really should be hitting harder. Increase the base POW is one way to do it, but less fitting fluff-wise.
The problem I'm guessing is that if you tune them for higher output, then they clearly outshine combat lights. I personally am fine with that, considering their limited threat range.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 29, 2018 20:09:27 GMT
From the IKRPG Skorne Empire book, Immortals are usually just the entourage of actual ancestor heroes. They aren't heroes per se, usually just dudes that died near AGs and had their souls preserved. As such, 6 MAT, P+S13 non-weaponmasters is fine. The AGs however are the real deal, and really should be hitting harder. Increase the base POW is one way to do it, but less fitting fluff-wise. The problem I'm guessing is that if you tune them for higher output, then they clearly outshine combat lights. I personally am fine with that, considering their limited threat range. It's ok if they out shine combat lights: 1. They don't have their durability 2. They don't fuel casters fury 3. They don't come from the same siloh of points so they won't make combat light beasts obsolete (any more than they already are) 4. Combat lights like the Cyclops Savage kinda suck, it's not like people are taking them right now anyway 5. They are limited by the souls available to them and can't receive battlegroup buffs. ... These probably didn't need to be listed like this, since I'm betting your already agree, but I guess the idea that Ancestral Guardians must suck because combat-light war beasts suck triggered me. Why DO combat light war beasts suck so much? Like across the board, unless they have a utility animus, I NEVER see them unless the caster has Synergy. And even then, unless you have ridiculous fury management it kinda behooves you to take budget heavies instead. I feel like there should be at least a good Naaresh build using Cyclops Savages but... Sigh. A combat light should probably be good at jamming (they aren't) or armor cracking (nope) or infantry murder (strike three). It's a problem that followed me from Legion and it is kinda frustrating.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 29, 2018 21:10:35 GMT
From the IKRPG Skorne Empire book, Immortals are usually just the entourage of actual ancestor heroes. They aren't heroes per se, usually just dudes that died near AGs and had their souls preserved. As such, 6 MAT, P+S13 non-weaponmasters is fine. The AGs however are the real deal, and really should be hitting harder. Increase the base POW is one way to do it, but less fitting fluff-wise. The problem I'm guessing is that if you tune them for higher output, then they clearly outshine combat lights. I personally am fine with that, considering their limited threat range. Their fluffy full name is Immortal Companions right? Yeah, they're just dudes that died well. AG's are... like Xerxis and Makedas grandfather and whatnot. True powers in their own right. From a mechanical perspective you probably can't give them wm but maybe crit brutal or crit decap would be fine. As for weapon attachment, I think more guns is both sky pie and undesireable. I was hoping more for brutal charge PS15 "weight of stone" duders with a huge rock club. Though that's probably asking too much as well. Whatever, make em mat 4 to reflect the unweildy nature of the club.
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skormedlover87
Junior Strategist
Desperately searching for days off to game...
Posts: 517
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Post by skormedlover87 on Aug 29, 2018 21:12:28 GMT
From the IKRPG Skorne Empire book, Immortals are usually just the entourage of actual ancestor heroes. They aren't heroes per se, usually just dudes that died near AGs and had their souls preserved. As such, 6 MAT, P+S13 non-weaponmasters is fine. The AGs however are the real deal, and really should be hitting harder. Increase the base POW is one way to do it, but less fitting fluff-wise. The problem I'm guessing is that if you tune them for higher output, then they clearly outshine combat lights. I personally am fine with that, considering their limited threat range. It's ok if they out shine combat lights: 1. They don't have their durability 2. They don't fuel casters fury 3. They don't come from the same siloh of points so they won't make combat light beasts obsolete (any more than they already are) 4. Combat lights like the Cyclops Savage kinda suck, it's not like people are taking them right now anyway 5. They are limited by the souls available to them and can't receive battlegroup buffs. ... These probably didn't need to be listed like this, since I'm betting your already agree, but I guess the idea that Ancestral Guardians must suck because combat-light war beasts suck triggered me. Why DO combat light war beasts suck so much? Like across the board, unless they have a utility animus, I NEVER see them unless the caster has Synergy. And even then, unless you have ridiculous fury management it kinda behooves you to take budget heavies instead. I feel like there should be at least a good Naaresh build using Cyclops Savages but... Sigh. A combat light should probably be good at jamming (they aren't) or armor cracking (nope) or infantry murder (strike three). It's a problem that followed me from Legion and it is kinda frustrating. I always wonder if combat lights can be a decent answer to heavy infantry spam. A Naaresh list or something.
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boozy
Junior Strategist
Posts: 429
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Post by boozy on Aug 29, 2018 21:54:32 GMT
As mentioned, combat lights suck in every faction, with most 'locks and 'casters. Aside from the Synergy ones, only Una2 really gets work out of them.
That is a way of making them viable, but I think it misses the mark. At the end, for me the main problem is that they are generally too easy to remove. A little bump in a defensive stat and boxes would go a long way.
A weapon attachment for Immortals would be good. I do believe some gun presence is needed within the theme. Maybe make the novitiates WA.
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granor
Junior Strategist
Posts: 353
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Post by granor on Aug 29, 2018 22:06:28 GMT
I would love for Skorne to get a unit that can cast a pain spell on the power level of sunder spirit or flesh hooks. But I really don’t think pp is holding anything back from the CID announcement if we were getting another unit we would have seen it by now.
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Post by Charistoph on Aug 29, 2018 22:46:02 GMT
From the IKRPG Skorne Empire book, Immortals are usually just the entourage of actual ancestor heroes. They aren't heroes per se, usually just dudes that died near AGs and had their souls preserved. As such, 6 MAT, P+S13 non-weaponmasters is fine. The AGs however are the real deal, and really should be hitting harder. Increase the base POW is one way to do it, but less fitting fluff-wise. The problem I'm guessing is that if you tune them for higher output, then they clearly outshine combat lights. I personally am fine with that, considering their limited threat range. Their fluffy full name is Immortal Companions right? Yeah, they're just dudes that died well. AG's are... like Xerxis and Makedas grandfather and whatnot. True powers in their own right. I know this won't fit the upcoming expectations, but what if the AG and Extoller switched spots? Abilities would be altered to consider their position with the unit, but otherwise, what do you think? As for weapon attachment, I think more guns is both sky pie and undesireable. I was hoping more for brutal charge PS15 "weight of stone" duders with a huge rock club. Though that's probably asking too much as well. Whatever, make em mat 4 to reflect the unweildy nature of the club. The reason I suggested some shooting was to have something a little different rather than "more of the same, but a little stronger". That's great for Caber Tossers, but let's try to be a little more unique among the Hordes. Even if we go without shooting, maybe something that when it attacks, causes it to have it's armor reduced for that turn. Let's make it a little interesting than just a stronger statue, please.
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Post by mcdermott on Sept 3, 2018 2:29:30 GMT
Change Ancestral Guardians to be a 1 per unit WA, create new solos.
Edit: seriously why aren't there a Firetruckin million character immortals? Aren't they supposed to be the best of the best in a culture that values weird and exotic weapons and fighting styles?
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Post by illrede on Sept 3, 2018 18:02:59 GMT
Change Ancestral Guardians to be a 1 per unit WA, create new solos. Edit: seriously why aren't there a Firetruckin million character immortals? Aren't they supposed to be the best of the best in a culture that values weird and exotic weapons and fighting styles? Immortals don't really have personalities, and Ancestral Guardian personalities are quite singular (as in, nearly each and every one of them was a Tyrant that spent a lifetime being the best Praetorian or Cataphract they could be, and was good enough at it so that when eventually killed in a fight an Ancestral Guardian that had spent its mortal life being the best Praetorian or Cataphract they could be and was watching figured they were worthy to become an Ancestral Guardian, and failing that an Extoller that was nearby decided that if they took the soul to an Ancestral Guardian to make that call later, it would be approved. Although some weren't Tyrants and just really, really good at being Praetorians or Cataphracts.
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