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Post by onijet01 on Aug 21, 2018 13:57:50 GMT
So as of today i am in posession of a Privateer Press Mystery Box and upon receiving it my Random faction was the Protectorate of Menoth.
My box contained. 1. Protectorate of Menoth Battle Box. 1. Judicator/Revelator Colossal Kit. 1. Crusader/Templar/vanquisher Hvy. Warjack Kit. 1. Guardian/Indictor Hvy. Warjack Kit. 1. Vigilant Lt. Warjack Kit. 1. Protectorate of Menoth Token Set.
I can post pictures of requested.
My questions are after adding a Chior of Menoth unit to my collection. What would be a decent list i can run with the models.
:note: i played protectorate a long time ago and gave the army i had away to a friend who was getting into the game. So the factions alittle rusty
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hethrir
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 1
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Post by hethrir on Aug 21, 2018 14:02:17 GMT
With Malekus you can't go wrong with grabbing Eye of Truth. A Vassal of Menoth is also beneficial. After that a unit of infantry (other than the choir) is good as a screen for the revelator/vanquisher kits. Past those basic purchases, those models work pretty well with Kreoss 1 as a basic pop and drop.
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Post by gargs454 on Aug 21, 2018 15:34:12 GMT
If you're looking for something with just those models, well, you're going to be pretty much limited to Creator's Might and Malekus isn't the best bet there. That said, you do have a nice foundation for your jacks but I agree with Hethrir that you are going to want an infantry unit that can get some work done. The good news is that for the most part, each of our infantry units have their place and can be useful in the right lists. If you are not wanting to add any warcasters at the moment, Cleansers might be a decent start with Malekus as they'll get fairly nuts on feat turn with him. You can also then add in TFG and you'll start to get a decent beginning on a Guardians list. Add a unit or two of Daughters and you really are in good shape.
That said, I would also agree that something like Kreoss1 or either of the Sevvys would help make everything better while still be pretty easy to run from a "new to the faction" perspective. Those two also have the advantage of being fairly workable in most of the themes (obviously better in some than others).
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Aug 21, 2018 16:47:34 GMT
Never ever play in creator's might. Exemplar Interdiction or Faithful Masses are better as warjack themes in every way, even if you're not getting any free stuff.
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Post by bigk on Aug 21, 2018 17:37:18 GMT
Following this as I just got mine as well! Never played protectorate, but am looking forward to it!
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 21, 2018 19:47:09 GMT
If you're in it for fun the mystery box makes a fine list in Creator's Might. You can run the following with a minimal amount of additional models and all of the additions work well towards a larger protectorate collection: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0dfZ1SlV9x1Hme3z3z3B3B3B303G3Hm2Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might [Malekus 1] Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30] - Castigator [12] - Judicator [34] - Repenter [8] - Revenger [10] - Hierophant [0(3)] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Vassal of Menoth [3] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard [9] If you want to run the vigilant you get then drop Rhoven and co and slot the jack in. Rhoven adds better utility to the list, a unit of additional scoring potential and some shield guards though. Also alternatively drop the free vassal and put in Sevy0 and move the castigator over to him. Alternate list: conflictchamber.com/#c2201b_-0dfZlV9x1HmelM1Sl_3z3B303G3HProtectorate Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] The Creator's Might [Malekus 1] Malekus, the Burning Truth [+30] - Judicator [34] - Repenter [8] - Revenger [10] - Hierophant [0(3)] Scrutator Potentate Severius [0(6)] - Castigator [12] - Indictor [14] Vassal of Menoth [0(3)] Wrack [1] Choir of Menoth (max) [6] Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15] - Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5] From there fun and profit.
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Post by onijet01 on Aug 22, 2018 3:50:59 GMT
Wow yet another forum were 0pl dont read a requeat or question. Guess being able to finish reading a post it to much for menoth players.
So ill ask again.
With the inclusion of the chior of Menoth, does the mystery box models allow for a okay army. And if so how many points worth.
I did not ask "what would you run?" You ppl need to read better
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Post by greytemplar on Aug 22, 2018 4:09:29 GMT
Well I would personally get another warcaster because Malakus is not good, nor is the stuff you have particularly good for him either. You could do a decent Tristan2 jack list. He likes a melee focused jacks and a judicator under manifest destiny is silly. Maybe get some cinerators+UA and a Vessel for some repair/healing silliness too.
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chuggyg
Junior Strategist
Posts: 474
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Post by chuggyg on Aug 22, 2018 13:09:00 GMT
Wow yet another forum were 0pl dont read a requeat or question. Guess being able to finish reading a post it to much for menoth players. So ill ask again. With the inclusion of the chior of Menoth, does the mystery box models allow for a okay army. And if so how many points worth. I did not ask "what would you run?" You ppl need to read better what do you mean, 'you people'?!?
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Post by toxichobbit on Aug 22, 2018 13:09:15 GMT
Wow yet another forum were 0pl dont read a requeat or question. Guess being able to finish reading a post it to much for menoth players. So ill ask again. With the inclusion of the chior of Menoth, does the mystery box models allow for a okay army. And if so how many points worth. I did not ask "what would you run?" You ppl need to read better People above took the time to answer and even write out army lists for you - maybe they read things differently to you and don't fully get what you're asking. Not everyone is a native english speaker and even if they are, levels of proficiency vary greatly. What might seem like an obvious question to you could read as something completely differently to someone else, especially without visual cues or the ability to quickly clarify exactly what it is you're asking. Or if it is simply a case of just people not reading what you wrote, you could at least aknowledge that they tried to help, even if they overshot and didn't answer the question that you were asking. Something like a simple "thanks, but I'm not adding more models yet, I just want to know how/if I can run a list with these". It's certainly frustrating when people don't read/misunderstand what you wrote, but it happens all the time and isn't a reason to reply in the way you have.
Whichever of those is the case, you're unlikely to get much in the way of response with a reply like the above. Why would people bother taking time to try and help you when, unless they answer the very specific question that you asked, you're going to complain and insult the community that they're part of? Almost every single one of the above posts is written with a desire to help you, even if they miss the mark.
Malekus isn't a good warjack caster, so you're immediately limited to the size of the games if you're sticking to those models. He has zero focus efficency which, even with a Choir supporting your jacks, is going to limit you to three, maybe four warjacks.
His spell list doesn't lend itself well to a large battlegroup. Open Fire looks good on paper but in reality is really situational. It's out of activation so can't be combined with a boost, limiting you to MAT 6 or RAT 5. You also can't get the aim bonus out of activation, which limits it's use even more. That's less of an issue in smaller games at least, because you'll mainly be facing off against warjacks/beasts which usually restricts the amount of high DEF you'll face. Still, Open Fire is an expensive spell for what it does and while you can get work out of it, I wouldn't consider it a selling feature of Malekus. Ignite is usually overkill on a Protectorate heavy - the Choir and their native P+S is generally enough to do what you need them to. It is however, good on a light, as when combined with the Choir it lets the light hit like a heavy. Finally you've got Banishing Ward, which is going to be fantastic in some matchups and irrelevant in others. Again, another situational spell.
His feat does nothing for melee models, only ranged. To further emphasise his ranged focus, he has no way of increasing threat range or dealing with terrain. Even then he's not especially good with just jacks as he really wants quantity of ranged fire damage, because he's very reliant upon his feat to gain the upper hand in attrition/scenario or enable an assassination. That said, jacks are all you have to work with so you'll want to write lists that leverage his feat as much as possible. Without the feat he's just a basic warcaster with a damage buff and a couple of situational support spells.
Taking all of that into account you are going to want to run a list based upon the Repenter and Vanquisher. There's not much choice in the matter to be honest, because he barely does anything for the other warjacks you've got. Even with both of those warjacks, you've got a slow list that's completely reliant upon his feat to get ahead in the game. For the third warjack choice you'll want an arc node. You need to leverage every bit of fire damage you can get on his feat turn so having the ability to arc Immolation into something is important. In addition, this opens up assassinations through arced Scourge. Though from experience I believe this is more of an opportunistic assassination than a key part of his playstyle.
It's also worth considering his personal ranged output, especially on his feat turn. You'll need to balance opportunities for him to do work with his ranged weapon against his survival. His defensive stats are poor and he's on a medium base, so hard to protect with just a few warjacks. The Vigilant is a good choice here if you want to get more work out of Malekus. Just bear in mind that he'll have to get a lot of work done as the Vigilant is increasing the size of the game while adding very little in the way of offense to your list.
The final thing worth mentioning is the colossals. He can get use out of either of them, especially the Revelator due to it's large amount of fire damage ranged attacks, but adding in a colossal obviousy requires a significant increase in points while limiting your flexibility even further. Personally I wouldn't use the Colossal until I had a more balanced selection of Protectorate models.
To sum up, your list is probably going to be something along the lines of the battlebox with the Castigator swapped out for a Vanquisher and a Choir added. So we're talking really small games, in the region of 10 points. You could take a fourth warjack, probably the Vigilant, if you want to increase the size. I'd strongly recommend not going beyond four jacks as he just can't run more than that well.
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Post by paradox on Aug 22, 2018 14:06:12 GMT
Wow yet another forum were 0pl dont read a requeat or question. Guess being able to finish reading a post it to much for menoth players. So ill ask again. With the inclusion of the chior of Menoth, does the mystery box models allow for a okay army. And if so how many points worth. I did not ask "what would you run?" You ppl need to read better Shoulda been more specific if you wanted a very, very specific answer. You really just got what you asked for, because the alternative reading was really no answer at all. Its terrific to be specific!
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Post by onijet01 on Aug 22, 2018 15:17:57 GMT
Wow yet another forum were 0pl dont read a requeat or question. Guess being able to finish reading a post it to much for menoth players. So ill ask again. With the inclusion of the chior of Menoth, does the mystery box models allow for a okay army. And if so how many points worth. I did not ask "what would you run?" You ppl need to read better People above took the time to answer and even write out army lists for you - maybe they read things differently to you and don't fully get what you're asking. Not everyone is a native english speaker and even if they are, levels of proficiency vary greatly. What might seem like an obvious question to you could read as something completely differently to someone else, especially without visual cues or the ability to quickly clarify exactly what it is you're asking. Or if it is simply a case of just people not reading what you wrote, you could at least aknowledge that they tried to help, even if they overshot and didn't answer the question that you were asking. Something like a simple "thanks, but I'm not adding more models yet, I just want to know how/if I can run a list with these". It's certainly frustrating when people don't read/misunderstand what you wrote, but it happens all the time and isn't a reason to reply in the way you have.
Whichever of those is the case, you're unlikely to get much in the way of response with a reply like the above. Why would people bother taking time to try and help you when, unless they answer the very specific question that you asked, you're going to complain and insult the community that they're part of? Almost every single one of the above posts is written with a desire to help you, even if they miss the mark.
Malekus isn't a good warjack caster, so you're immediately limited to the size of the games if you're sticking to those models. He has zero focus efficency which, even with a Choir supporting your jacks, is going to limit you to three, maybe four warjacks.
His spell list doesn't lend itself well to a large battlegroup. Open Fire looks good on paper but in reality is really situational. It's out of activation so can't be combined with a boost, limiting you to MAT 6 or RAT 5. You also can't get the aim bonus out of activation, which limits it's use even more. That's less of an issue in smaller games at least, because you'll mainly be facing off against warjacks/beasts which usually restricts the amount of high DEF you'll face. Still, Open Fire is an expensive spell for what it does and while you can get work out of it, I wouldn't consider it a selling feature of Malekus. Ignite is usually overkill on a Protectorate heavy - the Choir and their native P+S is generally enough to do what you need them to. It is however, good on a light, as when combined with the Choir it lets the light hit like a heavy. Finally you've got Banishing Ward, which is going to be fantastic in some matchups and irrelevant in others. Again, another situational spell.
His feat does nothing for melee models, only ranged. To further emphasise his ranged focus, he has no way of increasing threat range or dealing with terrain. Even then he's not especially good with just jacks as he really wants quantity of ranged fire damage, because he's very reliant upon his feat to gain the upper hand in attrition/scenario or enable an assassination. That said, jacks are all you have to work with so you'll want to write lists that leverage his feat as much as possible. Without the feat he's just a basic warcaster with a damage buff and a couple of situational support spells.
Taking all of that into account you are going to want to run a list based upon the Repenter and Vanquisher. There's not much choice in the matter to be honest, because he barely does anything for the other warjacks you've got. Even with both of those warjacks, you've got a slow list that's completely reliant upon his feat to get ahead in the game. For the third warjack choice you'll want an arc node. You need to leverage every bit of fire damage you can get on his feat turn so having the ability to arc Immolation into something is important. In addition, this opens up assassinations through arced Scourge. Though from experience I believe this is more of an opportunistic assassination than a key part of his playstyle.
It's also worth considering his personal ranged output, especially on his feat turn. You'll need to balance opportunities for him to do work with his ranged weapon against his survival. His defensive stats are poor and he's on a medium base, so hard to protect with just a few warjacks. The Vigilant is a good choice here if you want to get more work out of Malekus. Just bear in mind that he'll have to get a lot of work done as the Vigilant is increasing the size of the game while adding very little in the way of offense to your list.
The final thing worth mentioning is the colossals. He can get use out of either of them, especially the Revelator due to it's large amount of fire damage ranged attacks, but adding in a colossal obviousy requires a significant increase in points while limiting your flexibility even further. Personally I wouldn't use the Colossal until I had a more balanced selection of Protectorate models.
To sum up, your list is probably going to be something along the lines of the battlebox with the Castigator swapped out for a Vanquisher and a Choir added. So we're talking really small games, in the region of 10 points. You could take a fourth warjack, probably the Vigilant, if you want to increase the size. I'd strongly recommend not going beyond four jacks as he just can't run more than that well.
Thank you for your breakdown and reply. Yes i was out of line in how i said that intent. So a 15 to maybe 25 pt game. Good to know. As i dont plant to buy more menoth outside chior (who i need for mercs) that was my intent
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Post by toxichobbit on Aug 22, 2018 22:36:16 GMT
Just to give you advance warning, I've been playing a lot of small games with Malekus due to our gaming group having a high proportion of new players interested in WM/H and us limiting to battlebox with gradual expansions to ease them in. It's been tough, Malekus is far from the most dynamic warcaster in the world and it gets pretty repetitive at small points levels. Hopefully you'll have more fun than I did.
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Post by onijet01 on Aug 23, 2018 1:52:59 GMT
Well i got my second Mystery Box today and it is another Menoth set. So yah lots of jacks for menoth not.
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draycos
Junior Strategist
Posts: 167
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Post by draycos on Aug 23, 2018 13:06:39 GMT
Well i got my second Mystery Box today and it is another Menoth set. So yah lots of jacks for menoth not. If you want to put together a Protectorate army, double colossal lists can be a thing. Malekus with two of either can be fun. The judicator has two 10 inch flame sprays and the Revelator has 4 fire based weapons. Not super competitive but it is fun. Just those and a jack or two + choir gets you pretty close to 75 if my mental math is correct. Just a thought.
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