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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 22, 2018 14:23:52 GMT
PP's balancing ability is laughable at this point. They blew up mk3 release, nerfed Cryx and cheap jack spam into the ground only 2 years later for Cryx and cheap jack spam to dominate again, except this time everyone can feel bad about it because it all got through CID (which was supposed to prevent it). Black industries didn't go through CID, right? Slayer did but by himself he isn't appealing... His good points fall over to the lack of protection cryx likes to play with. I noticed that the community seems a lot more confortable with Cryx dominating than other factions. Do you guys agree? Resigned =/= comfortable. Cryx is one of their most popular factions (though chicken/egg on that one) and on top of that, it's their head developer's favorite faction. So the likelihood of it ever being taken out of the top 3 or so factions in the game for any extended period of time seems quite unlikely. Personally, I think we'll likely have to content ourselves with a yearly nerf of whatever the new hotness is after Cryx overperforms at WTC each year, to be followed by PP releasing something else which then becomes the new new hotness for the following year.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 22, 2018 16:36:35 GMT
TBH Jason Soles said at the release of MK3 that Cryx was fine. Perhaps it wasn't simply damage control but his opinion. I got the real sense that the community preassured for a Cryx powercreep and calmed down when "order" was restaured and cryx became a powerhouse again.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Aug 22, 2018 16:49:21 GMT
TBH Jason Soles said at the release of MK3 that Cryx was fine. Perhaps it wasn't simply damage control but his opinion. I got the real sense that the community preassured for a Cryx powercreep and calmed down when "order" was restaured and cryx became a powerhouse again. Honestly, I wonder if he was right. I mean, Denny1 and most of the ingredients for Ghost Fleet were there pre-theme, and even once the theme came out, it took a few months for someone to actually figure it out.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Aug 22, 2018 16:55:20 GMT
Cryx was still terrible into gunlines back then. And gunlines were basically 80% of the very early meta. Stuff like Ossyan or VladRockets. Cryx wasn't generally bad, just into what everyone played.
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Post by jisidro on Aug 22, 2018 17:23:06 GMT
TBH Jason Soles said at the release of MK3 that Cryx was fine. Perhaps it wasn't simply damage control but his opinion. I got the real sense that the community preassured for a Cryx powercreep and calmed down when "order" was restaured and cryx became a powerhouse again. Honestly, I wonder if he was right. I mean, Denny1 and most of the ingredients for Ghost Fleet were there pre-theme, and even once the theme came out, it took a few months for someone to actually figure it out. My thoughts exactly.
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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 22, 2018 21:08:32 GMT
Honestly, I wonder if he was right. I mean, Denny1 and most of the ingredients for Ghost Fleet were there pre-theme, and even once the theme came out, it took a few months for someone to actually figure it out. My thoughts exactly. Has Cryx had 2 cids since then or 1? Or was it one big one?
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Aug 23, 2018 6:28:38 GMT
TBH Jason Soles said at the release of MK3 that Cryx was fine. Perhaps it wasn't simply damage control but his opinion. I got the real sense that the community preassured for a Cryx powercreep and calmed down when "order" was restaured and cryx became a powerhouse again. Honestly, I wonder if he was right. I mean, Denny1 and most of the ingredients for Ghost Fleet were there pre-theme, and even once the theme came out, it took a few months for someone to actually figure it out. The Wraith Engine cost 18 points at the beginning of Mk3 and it’s armor buff only buffed other Incorporeal models, Revenant Crew cost 10/17 for a Unit, & the Hellslinger Phantom did not exist. The ingredients for Ghost Fleet were not there pretheme. Pretheme a Wraith Engine, 3 Min Units of Revenant Crew w/ Rifles, and Rengrave was 71 points. You got no Blackbanes, no pistol wraiths, no Hellslinger. The only Incorporeal element to Pre-theme Ghost Fleet would have been the Wraith Engine, which had 0 Synergy with Revenant Crew with its release rules. The ingredients for Ghost Fleet didn’t exist until the January 2017 errata gave the list a 6 point discount & the Theme Force gave it an additional 15 extra points at a time when many people still played out of Theme because only a fraction of themes even existed.
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Deller
Junior Strategist
I’m on a Boat
Posts: 605
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Post by Deller on Aug 23, 2018 6:41:19 GMT
TBH Jason Soles said at the release of MK3 that Cryx was fine. Perhaps it wasn't simply damage control but his opinion. I got the real sense that the community preassured for a Cryx powercreep and calmed down when "order" was restaured and cryx became a powerhouse again. Release Mk3 Cryx probably was fine if they were playtesting it with themes in mind on SR 2017. The problem was for the first 6 months of Mk3 the playerbase was playing Themeless on SR 2016. Mk3 Cryx was absolute dogshit on that scenario packet, and had almost no game into Casters like release Caine2 or Ossyan without Theme benefits such as Banes gain Prowl, Heavy jacks gain Carapace, or added recursion to help recover the massive losses you’re going to receive. If Mk3 had just released with a scenario packet that was actually designed for it and the Theme Forces we have now, the Dark Host CID & the January 2017 Cryx errata (Mortenebra1 & maybe Asphyxious2 would probably have still been fixed in that errata) probably wouldn’t have happened.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 23, 2018 9:20:23 GMT
I don't think Soles was right, like other people have already said, Cryx struggled massively into gunlines at the start of Mk 3. I do however feel like they have over-compensated a bit.
At least in Mk 2 when you had to tech for Cryx, you just had to have a list that could kill hordes of dudes. Now not only do you have to do that, you have to try and tech for Gaspy3 9 Slayers as well.
It does not help that SR18 has the liveliest scenario packet yet, yes you can maybe just about trade favourably against 9 Slayers, but doing that and not just losing on scenario...Very slim chance. It reminds me of the Coven Double Bane Rider list, you either a) back up on their feat turn to not lose too much attrition wise, but conceded scenario or b) contest scenario, but then go down on attrition.
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 23, 2018 9:32:33 GMT
Has Cryx had 2 cids since then or 1? Or was it one big one? Thralls and Black Fleet, both last year.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 23, 2018 9:39:56 GMT
Thralls and Black Fleet, both last year. It's worth noting that while it's called the Thralls CID, it was also the CID where Battle Engines were tested for all the factions and Dark Host was the new hotness (new theme + all the Banes getting reworked). There were some changes to the Mechanithrall package, yet very little to anything else in the theme, and some people tested them, but the vast majority of the testing went out to Banes and Battle Engines.
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Post by hocestbellum on Aug 23, 2018 9:53:21 GMT
Thralls and Black Fleet, both last year. It's worth noting that while it's called the Thralls CID, it was also the CID where Battle Engines were tested for all the factions and Dark Host was the new hotness (new theme + all the Banes getting reworked). There were some changes to the Mechanithrall package, yet very little to anything else in the theme, and some people tested them, but the vast majority of the testing went out to Banes and Battle Engines. True, but that doesn't change the fact that Cryx has had 2 CIDs covering 4 themes, compared to... Actually, I'm not even sure any other faction has had a second theme done yet. Some haven't had any yet.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 23, 2018 10:10:56 GMT
True, but that doesn't change the fact that Cryx has had 2 CIDs covering 4 themes It does not indeed, I was merely elaborating on what you said.
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bward
Junior Strategist
Posts: 184
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Post by bward on Aug 23, 2018 13:05:57 GMT
It's worth noting that while it's called the Thralls CID, it was also the CID where Battle Engines were tested for all the factions and Dark Host was the new hotness (new theme + all the Banes getting reworked). There were some changes to the Mechanithrall package, yet very little to anything else in the theme, and some people tested them, but the vast majority of the testing went out to Banes and Battle Engines. True, but that doesn't change the fact that Cryx has had 2 CIDs covering 4 themes, compared to... Actually, I'm not even sure any other faction has had a second theme done yet. Some haven't had any yet. Cygnar has had 2, PoM has had 2, Trolls has had 2, Circle is about to have its 2nd. Not really even sure how to count Ret. That’s all I can think of right now, but this is hardly cryx privilege.
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swan101
Baby's First Wargame
Posts: 5
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Post by swan101 on Aug 23, 2018 14:43:48 GMT
True, but that doesn't change the fact that Cryx has had 2 CIDs covering 4 themes, compared to... Actually, I'm not even sure any other faction has had a second theme done yet. Some haven't had any yet. Cygnar has had 2, PoM has had 2, Trolls has had 2, Circle is about to have its 2nd. Not really even sure how to count Ret. That’s all I can think of right now, but this is hardly cryx privilege. I can't remember a Cygnaran CID other than trenchers and same for Trolls - can only remember the Northkin CID.
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