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Post by welshhoppo on Aug 21, 2018 6:26:12 GMT
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 21, 2018 6:38:10 GMT
Circle is the Bones faction. This was known, so no surprises there.
Krueger2 is in all but one pairing. Also not surprising.
The number of terrible Baldur2 lists does surprise me, though.
Mostly, I'm interested see what crazy winrate Cryx gets this year, and which lists get nerfed in a vain attempt to keep Cryx from dominating the Meta.
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Post by mcdermott on Aug 21, 2018 6:42:48 GMT
An avg 4 slayers per cryx player. not bad not bad.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 21, 2018 6:59:15 GMT
An avg 4 slayers per cryx player. not bad not bad. I only took 2 in an attempt to drag the average down
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Post by gedditoffme on Aug 21, 2018 10:58:14 GMT
I was surprised to see a Dreamer bump in the night list: mostly cask imps and other confusing combos.
Assume the opponent will be as confused and forget about the primary child dm list
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 21, 2018 11:53:30 GMT
So 25 Skorne players, that's 50 Skorne lists in total. In a statistic that is shocking no one, there are 58 Derp Turtles. So an average of more than 1 per list.
Cryx having almost double the number of players to the second most played faction is not surprising in the slightest. Hello Mk 2 my old friend! Actually that's doing Mk 2 a disservice, Mk 2 never had 9 Carapace Slayers 25" up the board top of one! utterly degenerate!
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 21, 2018 12:53:42 GMT
Skarre1 DH is just as degenerate as the 9 slayers. It doesn't use a single model type to do what it does but it does the exact same thing and just wins on turn 3. Both of those lists need to be kicked in the nuts and then Cryx might be in a better place.
On a positive note though check out the theme force spread for Cygnar, Protectorate, Ret, Khador, Skorne and Legion. Looks like those factions are at least seeing some decent internal balance on themes, if not individual models.
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crimsyn
Junior Strategist
Posts: 389
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Post by crimsyn on Aug 21, 2018 13:47:31 GMT
An avg 4 slayers per cryx player. not bad not bad. That’s still a lot. Last year Khador had an average about 3.3 Marauders per player, and that ended up having to go up in points. I suspect someone at PP will be watching this Slayer situation closely.
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Post by benjamini on Aug 21, 2018 14:02:45 GMT
Arguably the problem with Slayers isn't Slayers themselves, if they didn't have access to massive free defensive buffs from Field Marshals and Theme benefits you'd probably see a heck of a lot less of them. I'm not sure increasing the cost of the jack is going to solve as many problems as we hope it will, it'd be something though 8 slayers would be a bunch easier to deal with than 9 slayers!
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marke
Junior Strategist
Posts: 187
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Post by marke on Aug 21, 2018 14:08:52 GMT
If anything Slayers should be cheaper
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Aug 21, 2018 14:20:50 GMT
Arguably the problem with Slayers isn't Slayers themselves, if they didn't have access to massive free defensive buffs from Field Marshals and Theme benefits you'd probably see a heck of a lot less of them. I'm not sure increasing the cost of the jack is going to solve as many problems as we hope it will, it'd be something though 8 slayers would be a bunch easier to deal with than 9 slayers! Maybe the solution would be too change Gaspy 3, off the top of my head I would cut Mobility and give him Escort instead. The lack of Pathfinder could then be a limitation, and the +2" movement instead of Spd means the Slayers are not so far up the board turn 1. Black Industries could also do to lose the +2" deployment.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Aug 21, 2018 14:22:11 GMT
If anything Slayers should be cheaper :p Please, no one else respond to this. Please.
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Post by streetpizza on Aug 21, 2018 14:24:29 GMT
Arguably the problem with Slayers isn't Slayers themselves, if they didn't have access to massive free defensive buffs from Field Marshals and Theme benefits you'd probably see a heck of a lot less of them. I'm not sure increasing the cost of the jack is going to solve as many problems as we hope it will, it'd be something though 8 slayers would be a bunch easier to deal with than 9 slayers! Maybe the solution would be too change Gaspy 3, off the top of my head I would cut Mobility and give him Escort instead. The lack of Pathfinder could then be a limitation, and the +2" movement instead of Spd means the Slayers are not so far up the board turn 1. Black Industries could also do to lose the +2" deployment. Field marshal could also change from unyielding to steady or something like that.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Aug 21, 2018 14:27:55 GMT
Arguably the problem with Slayers isn't Slayers themselves, if they didn't have access to massive free defensive buffs from Field Marshals and Theme benefits you'd probably see a heck of a lot less of them. I'm not sure increasing the cost of the jack is going to solve as many problems as we hope it will, it'd be something though 8 slayers would be a bunch easier to deal with than 9 slayers! Maybe the solution would be too change Gaspy 3, off the top of my head I would cut Mobility and give him Escort instead. The lack of Pathfinder could then be a limitation, and the +2" movement instead of Spd means the Slayers are not so far up the board turn 1. Black Industries could also do to lose the +2" deployment. As a Cryx player, I could honestly get behind this, if it meant that other stuff could remain untouched. The draw of playing Asphyxious 3 and/or Black Industries is that finally the jacks aren't made of paper, and though they still need some support to actually deal some damage, they are at least playable in that theme. If he were to keep that core functionality and just lose some of his incredible speed, I would be fine with that, even if a little begrudgingly. The only other caster that really spams Slayers is Denny 2 and she really needs that budget heavy, I played her for a while with a more elite approach and there are just too many counters to her feat and toolkit in the meta. She needs some cheapish bait to initiate piece trades and the next (melee) heavy is 13 points and even more fragile at DEF 12.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Aug 21, 2018 15:10:50 GMT
Maybe the solution would be too change Gaspy 3, off the top of my head I would cut Mobility and give him Escort instead. The lack of Pathfinder could then be a limitation, and the +2" movement instead of Spd means the Slayers are not so far up the board turn 1. Black Industries could also do to lose the +2" deployment. As a Cryx player, I could honestly get behind this, if it meant that other stuff could remain untouched. The draw of playing Asphyxious 3 and/or Black Industries is that finally the jacks aren't made of paper, and though they still need some support to actually deal some damage, they are at least playable in that theme. If he were to keep that core functionality and just lose some of his incredible speed, I would be fine with that, even if a little begrudgingly. The only other caster that really spams Slayers is Denny 2 and she really needs that budget heavy, I played her for a while with a more elite approach and there are just too many counters to her feat and toolkit in the meta. She needs some cheapish bait to initiate piece trades and the next (melee) heavy is 13 points and even more fragile at DEF 12. The problem with Black Industries is not so much the strength of the list (though Gaspy3 getting turn 1 is in fact highly oppressive). It is that it is a list that asks a very strong and different question than Cryx usually asks, which can be paired with traditional Cryx lists. With a few exceptions for certain factions, it creates a nasty list chicken dynamic when playing into Cryx. Very similar in a lot of ways to Dark Host/Ghost Fleet, honestly. I've said it before, I'll say it again. If the intention of CID and themes is to expand the range of playable models and strategies in a faction, at some point PP is going to need to recognize that those lists cannot be allowed to pose as hard of a question as they could when the competitive meta for a given faction was narrower. The way the competitive warmachine/hordes environment has grown up is predicated on the assumption that you could tech for a given faction within a single list (and the exceptions to that have been... problematic, historically). If that's no longer intended to be the case, the necessity of teching, even for the best lists in the meta, needs to decrease.
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