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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 10, 2018 14:27:03 GMT
aaaaand that didn't last long. I already want to backburner PT lists and do my own thing... Which as usual is out-of-theme puzzles.
I really want to play Kallus 2. I was kind of down on the haphazard design, and technically still am. He has a weird trap where building to take advantage of one power spell, you lose out deftly on the other. Buuuuut I still want to do it. So below is the list I'm putting together to try and take advantage of both spells as best as possible.
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points
[Kallus 2] Kallus, Devastation of Everblight [+28] - Azrael [21] - Carnivean [18] - Proteus [19] - Ammok the Truthbearer [4] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Spell Martyr [1] Spell Martyr [1] Strider Deathstalker [4] Strider Deathstalker [4] Chosen of Everblight (max) [20] Strider Blightblades [10]
So obviously I should explain. (Not like that's the whole point of me posting this or anything)
Chosen - Two attacks at good pow for Legion infantry. Healthly enough to survive the approach with Kallus' lack of defense tech. High speed taken even higher with feat. Blight blades - Ambush or AD gives them much better threat. With the possibility to charge in 16.5" from board edge under feat.
Battle Lust: Both units are small in model count but make up for it with 2 attacks each. Granted half the attacks won't be boosted damage like a full 10 man unit charging in. but the smaller model count should let me get more attacks into single targets. I mean no matter how you want to try you will never get all 10 grotesques onto a single heavy. So I think (keyword) it will pan out the way I want.
Deathstalkers - Immediate regret in that Anamag game was board/range threat and clearing bodies. Now Deathstalkers weren't going to solve the gremlin swarm issue, but for anything but grymkin I will need a way to clear some light infantry and solos. Deathstalkers also give some flag scoring potential while still contributing within 12/14/16 inches of said flag.
Spell martyrs - battle lust on ambushing blightblades. Casting that one woeful attempt at Brand of Fire and then only rolling a 1 for additional targets. Then watches those two targets go out the next turn.
Azrael - fire application and Overrun proc. If I absolutely have to kill an infantry model to trigger overrun I will.
Carnivean - Kallus needs to be armor 20 and it's another sources of continuous fire. Though I really hope I don't have to assault a carni just to set something on fire.
Protues - this is the Key piece that should (keyword) be totally disgusting. 12" threat base. I can either Feat for 15", Overrun for 17" of both for 20". If I can charge any light infantry model of solo at the 4" reach mark I can have Overrun on Proteus himself and get him the next 5" walk for not much commitment. Then after I get somewhere else (initials wasted or not) I can buy another drag, which also sets the target on fire enabling more feat charges. All around Proteus should completely warp the game state whenever he goes in. I want it to be glorious.
Ammok is the only thing that is really just not a staple. He's there to help with the 2" casting range when not through a martyr. As well as the anti-incorp since I don't have wraithbane or a cheap nuke.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 10, 2018 15:10:35 GMT
aaaaand that didn't last long. I already want to backburner PT lists and do my own thing... Which as usual is out-of-theme puzzles. I really want to play Kallus 2. I was kind of down on the haphazard design, and technically still am. He has a weird trap where building to take advantage of one power spell, you lose out deftly on the other. Buuuuut I still want to do it. So below is the list I'm putting together to try and take advantage of both spells as best as possible. Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Kallus 2] Kallus, Devastation of Everblight [+28] - Azrael [21] - Carnivean [18] - Proteus [19] - Ammok the Truthbearer [4] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Spell Martyr [1] Spell Martyr [1] Strider Deathstalker [4] Strider Deathstalker [4] Chosen of Everblight (max) [20] Strider Blightblades [10] So obviously I should explain. (Not like that's the whole point of me posting this or anything) Chosen - Two attacks at good pow for Legion infantry. Healthly enough to survive the approach with Kallus' lack of defense tech. High speed taken even higher with feat. Blight blades - Ambush or AD gives them much better threat. With the possibility to charge in 16.5" from board edge under feat. Battle Lust: Both units are small in model count but make up for it with 2 attacks each. Granted half the attacks won't be boosted damage like a full 10 man unit charging in. but the smaller model count should let me get more attacks into single targets. I mean no matter how you want to try you will never get all 10 grotesques onto a single heavy. So I think (keyword) it will pan out the way I want. Deathstalkers - Immediate regret in that Anamag game was board/range threat and clearing bodies. Now Deathstalkers weren't going to solve the gremlin swarm issue, but for anything but grymkin I will need a way to clear some light infantry and solos. Deathstalkers also give some flag scoring potential while still contributing within 12/14/16 inches of said flag. Spell martyrs - battle lust on ambushing blightblades. Casting that one woeful attempt at Brand of Fire and then only rolling a 1 for additional targets. Then watches those two targets go out the next turn. Azrael - fire application and Overrun proc. If I absolutely have to kill an infantry model to trigger overrun I will. Carnivean - Kallus needs to be armor 20 and it's another sources of continuous fire. Though I really hope I don't have to assault a carni just to set something on fire. Protues - this is the Key piece that should (keyword) be totally disgusting. 12" threat base. I can either Feat for 15", Overrun for 17" of both for 20". If I can charge any light infantry model of solo at the 4" reach mark I can have Overrun on Proteus himself and get him the next 5" walk for not much commitment. Then after I get somewhere else (initials wasted or not) I can buy another drag, which also sets the target on fire enabling more feat charges. All around Proteus should completely warp the game state whenever he goes in. I want it to be glorious. Ammok is the only thing that is really just not a staple. He's there to help with the 2" casting range when not through a martyr. As well as the anti-incorp since I don't have wraithbane or a cheap nuke. Ammok for Forsaken. Your beast load is too high for what you've got. While it doesn't provide quite the solution for incorporeal that Ammok does, Blight-bombs ARE magical damage so it's something. Also with Kallus speed he pretty clear get to where he needs on his own to spread around some magical damage. I suppose it depends on your meta though.
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Post by copperflame on Aug 10, 2018 15:18:47 GMT
That list is almost identical to my own K2 out of theme (but, as mentioned, Forsaken for fury management). I haven't ran it yet so please continue to share if you do.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 10, 2018 17:43:27 GMT
If I don't have to face Grymkin then I think forsaken is hands down the better option. Though I like the range 8" buff spells it's by no means vital to the list.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
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Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Aug 10, 2018 22:08:43 GMT
If I don't have to face Grymkin then I think forsaken is hands down the better option. Though I like the range 8" buff spells it's by no means vital to the list. So what do you see your winning strategy for this? Clearing zones, assassination, clock, etc... The reason I ask is it kind of looks like your goal would be assassination and attrition, which means your ability to remove Gremlin Swarms isn't as big as issue. And of course, your paired list with this may be your Grymkin drop, etc. Just things to think about. I see Azrael in a list and I assume you would want to blow his full fury load on two fully boosted shots... But if you do this you will almost certainly need to take a frenzy check, and if he frenzies at range he is more likely to go after your stuff than his... It just seems like you are setting your self up for some tough situations, all to deal with one theme in one faction.
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thelat
Junior Strategist
Posts: 480
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Post by thelat on Aug 10, 2018 23:46:53 GMT
Legion Army - 75 / 75 points [Kallus 2] Kallus, Devastation of Everblight [+28] - Azrael [21] - Carnivean [18] - Proteus [19] - Ammok the Truthbearer [4] Blighted Nyss Shepherd [1] Spell Martyr [1] Spell Martyr [1] Strider Deathstalker [4] Strider Deathstalker [4] Chosen of Everblight (max) [20] Strider Blightblades [10] Your list is weird. I like it.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 11, 2018 0:13:18 GMT
So what do you see your winning strategy for this? Clearing zones, assassination, clock, etc... The reason I ask is it kind of looks like your goal would be assassination and attrition, which means your ability to remove Gremlin Swarms isn't as big as issue. And of course, your paired list with this may be your Grymkin drop, etc. Just things to think about. I see Azrael in a list and I assume you would want to blow his full fury load on two fully boosted shots... But if you do this you will almost certainly need to take a frenzy check, and if he frenzies at range he is more likely to go after your stuff than his... It just seems like you are setting your self up for some tough situations, all to deal with one theme in one faction. Overrun is definitely an assassination enabler. But I want it to also force scenario with the speed of overruning beasts up the board as well as the chosen just being bullies.
So in wanting to take scenario I can't let little incorp annoyances sit in/on scoring objectives. But I'll have to test it a lot before I and make absolute "this over that" decisions.
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 11, 2018 3:24:20 GMT
Proteus and kallus2 is an interesting mix. I’ve got a Kallus2 out if theme i want to proxy (double max raptors, double min chosen) and I may have to try and squeeze him in.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 11, 2018 8:07:25 GMT
If you're looking to make use of the feat to boost the chosen's SPD, you should probably look into squeezing in a Raek or 2.
It's just too easy to shield guard away a burning spear to rely on that for feat enabling, but a leaping (potentially overran) Raek is much more difficult to protect against.
I'm also not sold on Proteus, but I'm a little biased as I've never liked him. He seems like a lot of work to deliver a pillow-fisted, overpriced model.
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gordo
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Post by gordo on Aug 11, 2018 20:07:02 GMT
He seems like a lot of work to deliver a pillow-fisted, overpriced model. I feel like this description would apply to most of Legion war beasts.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 11, 2018 21:35:57 GMT
He seems like a lot of work to deliver a pillow-fisted, overpriced model. I feel like this description would apply to most of Legion war beasts. Fair enough. To rephrase, Proteus seems over-priced and pillow-fisted even by Legion standards.
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Post by apoc2148 on Aug 13, 2018 12:30:29 GMT
I feel like this description would apply to most of Legion war beasts. Fair enough. To rephrase, Proteus seems over-priced and pillow-fisted even by Legion standards. In any Kallus2 list your beasts shouldn't be your main arm cracking models, IMO. I see proteus in the lists more for drag/positioning shenanigans. With overrun it can get into some odd angles to drag models out of position for the rest of your army to kill.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Aug 13, 2018 13:04:56 GMT
Kallus2 is weird. You can either build him around Overrun, in which case you want beasts to do your ARM-Cracking, or you can build him around Battle Lust, in which case your beasts are more utility.
Proteus is just too many points for utility imo, so I'm not sure why he would be around.
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rivers
BattleBox Champ
Posts: 57
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Post by rivers on Aug 13, 2018 13:39:31 GMT
Yeah I'd rather K2 take some cheaper, mobile beasts like Raeks to pick off weaker warrior models to trigger overrun, and/or take more advantage of the field marshal/blazing path to set more stuff on fire for the infantry, especially since you have a fair few bodies, you also want a fair few enemy dudes on fire. As always the late game headbutt threat can greatly enhance the assassination, or force the enemy caster to be cagey simply because it exists.
I don't personally dislike Proteus, but I don't really think he has a place with K2. The described scenario where he gets 17/20" of threat is enticing though, so if you want to keep him, maybe Azrael is the one eating too many points for his purpose.
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Post by ForEver_Blight on Aug 13, 2018 16:35:52 GMT
It all depends. As Apoc said I'm using beasts for utility. Azrael is expensive just to set things on fire. But again, I have to actually get it on the table. Kallus is just a very split caster. Getting him to do both things at once might still be a trap.
[Edit] I also realized the ultimate Rube Goldberg machine with Proteus. If he (with overrun on himself) can get a charge on a Heavy at 4" reach, hit and drag then takes his other two initials. You can buy a tentacle swing, hit and kill an infantry model he can overrun back wards. Yes he takes a free strike but he should survive from full and unyielding. (Don't take a free strike from an auto-knockdown w/e). He then buys another tentacle swing to drag that heavy another 4" closer. Yes, I know it's bonkers and should NEVER work. But I am going to look for that situation 110% of the time and I will take it just for the fun of it.
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