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Post by josephkerr on Jul 27, 2018 23:19:57 GMT
Any thoughts on the much cheaper, slightly longer 8” deploy Blockhouse?
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Jul 28, 2018 6:44:00 GMT
I did not expect such a huge drop in points out of nowhere. Might be able to squeeze it into a list now but I'm not sure our go to trencher casters really want one anyways. Im not sure what you'd cut. I'd still rather have 2 express crews over this. You still need regular trenchers for a front line and long gunners kill stuff better. Maybe scrape out a couple of solos but any you're bringing are helping your army alot more then the blockhouse will.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 28, 2018 8:02:25 GMT
Might be tempted to actually buy one now, too bad the model still looks awful
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Post by minmaximus on Jul 28, 2018 8:43:24 GMT
At 10 points, its extremely tempting to run a recursion heavy Trencher list. Don't know if it would be any good but its got me thinking about it, finally.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 28, 2018 9:42:13 GMT
At 10 points... it is not THAT bad, but just for trench lines I had rather taking Trencher Long Gunners+Officer instead of Long Gunner Infantry+trenches. Even for me, who thinks theme forces are generally underwhelm and think non-theme first, don't see much value on it. Then how most people that likes theme force value it on Gravedigger, the theme force that thirst for anti armor solution but can spam the units with Dig In?
I still don't think that Blockhouse itself is good. It lacks anti armor capability and its points is too expensive. It is still need to be go second, which is weird(although I am go first only if it seems necessary or the opponent choose to go second already). Its firepower is meaningless and only worth for a Stormsmith Storm Tower(which is effectively removed from the game on the last errata) but it can't be moved.
Most importantly, the game is not the defense game, that all you need is just sit down in your covered position and shoot the mindless hordes of Mechanithralls.
The only selling point for it is a med-station for Trencher corps.... But for 10 points you can afford six Trencher Infantry troopers.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jul 28, 2018 17:00:47 GMT
still weak, just a band aid for a deeply flawed model. It's not the points, it's that it risks doing literally nothing the whole game. At 10 points I can think about it, but I'll probably reach for other stuff first
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 28, 2018 17:58:33 GMT
still weak, just a band aid for a deeply flawed model. It's not the points, it's that it risks doing literally nothing the whole game. At 10 points I can think about it, but I'll probably reach for other stuff first I think that's a bit harsh, yes it is effectively dead points when contesting scenario elements, but at 10 points I can definitely see a place for it. To use as a comparison, 10 points will get you 6 Trencher Infantry. By bringing back d3 a turn it is perfectly feasible that the Blockhouse returns 6 models over the course of a game (if not more). The Trenches providing cover and Girded from being b2b with the blockhouse is good for units/solos that cannot dig in every turn e.g. Ragman, Rhupert, Aiyana & Holt, Warcasters. Putting Haley 3 in a trench for example with Temporal Flux makes her a casual def 20 against ranged, along with her Echoes. I know my Stryker 3 list would love a Trench to hide Stryker in. It's gun is also a bit better now it deploys 8" past regular deployment, a Rat 7 (with Finn) RNG 15", Pow 15 Quake gun with a 4" AOE and High Explosive is pretty decent. even if you go first you can hit 30" up the board. I might be crazy enough to put Caine 2 back on the table, he would love a trench to hide in, and Blockhouse is one of the few good FFE targets in Cygnar
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Post by jagius021 on Jul 28, 2018 18:53:49 GMT
I ran Caine 2 with the blockhouse and it was quite a lot of fun. Ffe on it is super good, that gun was causing headaches every turn. I opted for press gangers with Murdoch as my Merc choice and heightened reflexes plus trenches and go to ground kept them jamming the whole game. Plus people forgot what Caine2 can do. And before we become a group of narrow minded reductionists, yes there are things that are better for reason x and example y... it's fun to run and can win games.
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Post by chrisbatson on Jul 29, 2018 23:51:46 GMT
It's not the points, it's that it risks doing literally nothing the whole game. Ive played 25+ games with them and while I will be amongst the first to say that it is not a power piece, I have never in those 25+ games, had it do nothing.
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Post by cygnarstronk on Jul 30, 2018 9:53:30 GMT
Let me explain, it's not that 10 points it is bad, it's that the other options you have are usually so mandatory that even those 10 points feel wasted. 2 Full units, mercs (either A&H or the risen), express teams, busters and the full solo suite already take up most of the lists. I wouldn't drop any of that for the blockhouse.
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 30, 2018 10:06:55 GMT
Well, it is even worse in the meta that everyone says you need to stick with any of a theme, as I said already. The most selling point of Blockhouse is its two trench pieces, but they are only available on Gravedigger and almost all Trenchers are focus on deny ranged attacks.
Also with the same cost you can afford a minimum unit of Trencher Infantry, both Gravedigger and non-theme list, and they can simply deny the ranged attacks but even 10pts investment is already expensive just for smoke.... And trenches are cannot be moved with our advancing force, as well as don't simply deny the ranged attack.
And Warmahine&Hordes is not a offense/defense game that you may play a defense team.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 30, 2018 10:19:18 GMT
Gonna give this a spin
Cygnar Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Gravediggers
[Caine 2] Captain Allister Caine [+27] - Ace [10] - Avenger [17] Captain Maxwell Finn [0(6)] Commander Anson Hitch [4] Patrol Dog [2] Ragman [4] Trench Buster [0(5)] Trench Buster [0(5)] Lady Aiyana & Master Holt [8] - Captain Jonas Murdoch [4] Trencher Infantry (max) [16] - Trencher Infantry Officer & Sniper [5] Trencher Long Gunners (max) [18] - Trencher Long Gunner Officer [4] Trencher Blockhouse [10]
Caine 2 can apply Grievous Wounds, so not having the Express Teams is not so bad, It has two boostable Knockdown guns to enable the Longgunners to CRA something while Dark Shroud is being applied. Heightened Reflexes on the Trenchers makes them a good screen, and the list has plenty of anti stealth and magic weapons
edit, also Bullet Dodger on Finn seems fun, especially when combined with Annoyance from the Pupper
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Post by Rork on Jul 30, 2018 16:19:02 GMT
It could be interesting with Caine1 for the Snipe/Deadeye combo. Add in a TMG for arcing fire (if you are feeling crazy) and lob shots into the middle of formations and really cause them trouble.
But does Caine1 really need more help killing infantry?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jul 30, 2018 16:53:21 GMT
It could be interesting with Caine1 for the Snipe/Deadeye combo. Add in a TMG for arcing fire (if you are feeling crazy) and lob shots into the middle of formations and really cause them trouble. But does Caine1 really need more help killing infantry? Caine1 needs anti armor solution, not anti-infantry method which is his own advantage. Also, Avenger can serve similar purpose as well. Its RNG is shorter and can't Arcing Fire, but it can move and usually the presence of Arcing Fire is not that important for knockdown, for it can knockdown the enemy frontline instead. It doesn't need Deadeye to add the attack roll. And while it is more expensive, it can be bought by warjack point and is also a decent melee warjack. Well, I don't think that your idea is not useful at all, but as you think Caine1 is not that good candidate. Instead, if you want to run the idea what about Stryker1 or Maddox, who also possess Snipe? Perhaps Maddox seems better, for Stryker1 already has Earthquake, but Maddox lacking accuracy fix(and cast Fury on Trencher Infantry and make them an anti-armor specialist.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 30, 2018 19:58:12 GMT
Blockhouse is good at 10 points. Try it out. I have not been disappointed so far.
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