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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 20, 2018 5:53:48 GMT
conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0G020riYjq6GbF0li-iZj5iTbKTrollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Gunnbjorn 1] Captain Gunnbjorn [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Ice Troll [9] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Wrong Eye [17] - Snapjaw Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Trollkin Champions (max) [16] - Skaldi Bonehammer [5] So, whatever am I up to this time? I realize that Gunny is usually built as an answer to gun lines but this is actually more of a question list. Can the opponent deal with Raiders and Champs in melee backed up with Star-Crossed, probably without any time to shoot them on the approach? WE&SJ are not protected by Gunny's feat, but they have Submerge, so maybe they are not so out of place here after all. Snappy is a respectable heavy in his own right and can help the Champs if they need to take down multiple heavies or a colossal. I really like the Raiders here, at least in theory. Especially with Snipe, they cannot be ignored. Add Star-Crossed into the mix and they can shoot, jam, and/or screen, as needed. You could run a Hooch Hauler instead of the Champs but that makes Wrong-Eye look much less compelling. Without him, we're talking about a completely different list concept.
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Post by grabsnikk on Jul 20, 2018 10:33:19 GMT
That's actually a really interesting list. It's doesn't look anything like the types of Gunnbjorn lists that you would usually see.
I like the inclusion of Snapjaw for Star Crossed to make Champions hard to deal with but it seems like an odd choice with Gunnbjorn as he does nothing for the Champions but provide Rockwall which definitely asks a question but I'm not sure that's it's a very strong question compared to say Borka1 with Arcane Warded Def 16 Arm18 Sanguine Bond Champions under Star Crossed.
I would love to hear how the list plays though as it looks like it would be a lot of fun and Sniped Raiders seems pretty decent although their Rat 5 leaves a lot to be desired.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 20, 2018 12:35:58 GMT
It's not totally unheard of to see Gunny with a mostly-melee army. I once saw a Band of Heroes list with Fennblades and a Mountain King. He helps to deliver the Champs, which is often all the help they need. Shooting is their biggest weakness and, like you said, the rock wall can stop charges too.
Hopefully, Snipe would allow the Raiders to aim more often, but I do need to remember that they are a melee unit first and a ranged unit second. Still, it would be kinda funny to kill an Exemplar in melee then Quick Work a shot at the choir 12 inches back.
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Post by grabsnikk on Jul 20, 2018 20:54:13 GMT
It's not totally unheard of to see Gunny with a mostly-melee army. I once saw a Band of Heroes list with Fennblades and a Mountain King. He helps to deliver the Champs, which is often all the help they need. Shooting is their biggest weakness and, like you said, the rock wall can stop charges too. Hopefully, Snipe would allow the Raiders to aim more often, but I do need to remember that they are a melee unit first and a ranged unit second. Still, it would be kinda funny to kill an Exemplar in melee then Quick Work a shot at the choir 12 inches back. Yeah the Raiders are definitely a melee unit first. Often I find that against Menoth I don't get to quick work as Errants always seem to self sac in order to deny you attacks. However this does mean that they do not give up souls so it not usually that much of a problem. |
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Post by macdaddy on Jul 21, 2018 11:38:34 GMT
Are WE and SJ really pivotal to the list? It’s gonna be hard to leverage star crossed on the raiders I think
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 21, 2018 17:38:44 GMT
Are WE and SJ really pivotal to the list? It’s gonna be hard to leverage star crossed on the raiders I think They are in theory. DEF 13 is the minimum to get the most out of Star-Crossed, but Wrong-Eye will probably be closer to the Champs anyway. The Raiders can use Snipe and I like having the option to put it on them first. That said, the idea was to make the list difficult to deal with both at range and in melee, and there might be a better way to do that... conflictchamber.com/#c7201b_-0G020resjq6GfFj20li-iZiZj5j3Trollbloods Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Storm of the North [Gunnbjorn 1] Captain Gunnbjorn [+28] - Dire Troll Bomber [19] - Dozer & Smigg [18] - Trollkin Runebearer [0(5)] Fell Caller Hero [0(5)] Swamp Gobber Chef [1] Valka Curseborn, Chieftain of the North [0(6)] Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9] - Northkin Elder [3] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Bear Handlers & Battle Bears [10] Northkin Raiders (max) [15] Hearthgut Hooch Hauler [18] Which is Unyielding + Stumbling Drunk. Valka and the Bears are both designed to be able to take a hit and survive. They might then stumble out of melee. The Bears also have Prowl, so there might be times when I can lead with them in the snow drifts with no need to feat. Gunny likes battle engines anyway and both Snipe and Dozer's animus help the Hauler tremendously. Snipe makes it easier for it to oil a hard target so the Raiders get boosted damage against it. This means no Champs, but I do have more bears and a second heavy warbeast and more solos. I also thought that the Champs probably wouldn't have any room to Stumble. |
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Post by Trollock on Jul 22, 2018 6:01:52 GMT
Have you tried single GK as the battle group? I think it might be legit here... Though Doze Animus is nifty...
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 22, 2018 6:10:57 GMT
Have you tried single GK as the battle group? I think it might be legit here... Though Doze Animus is nifty... I considered that also, but I do think that Dozer helps the Hooch Hauler a lot. The first version of the list, with WE&SJ instead of the Hauler, just could not get to a third freebie no matter how hard I tried- So there I could replace both beasts and the bears with a GK and a Sorcerer on the Champs, but I'm not so sure about that. Concealment does stack with Star-Crossed, though, if the board state ever allows. |
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Post by Phlushot on Jul 23, 2018 16:57:59 GMT
Thought about swapping the Bomber for Rok? I will say that I tried the Hauler/Raider combo and found it fairly unwieldy. I wanted the Raiders in a cloud in front of the Hauler for Stumbling Drunk but then wanted the Hauler to activate first in order to Oil a model except my Raiders were blocking the way. And Command 7 on the Raiders makes it difficult to put them to either side. I did consider 2 min units but making the points work was a struggle.
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 23, 2018 23:10:42 GMT
Thought about swapping the Bomber for Rok? I will say that I tried the Hauler/Raider combo and found it fairly unwieldy. I wanted the Raiders in a cloud in front of the Hauler for Stumbling Drunk but then wanted the Hauler to activate first in order to Oil a model except my Raiders were blocking the way. And Command 7 on the Raiders makes it difficult to put them to either side. I did consider 2 min units but making the points work was a struggle. Rok isn't great with no bond, no synergy specific to Gunny, and only one other beast. Raiders & Hauler is awkward for exactly that reason, which is why I thought that Snipe might help. It really only needs to be within 10 for Veteran Leader, though. Also, I am learning to place the Raiders in first and second waves, so the second at least could have Stumbling Drunk if they are closer. |
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jul 24, 2018 1:13:38 GMT
I would think that assault spray 6 and guided fire would be a good synergy, but I suspect that getting far shot matters more.
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Post by grabsnikk on Jul 24, 2018 3:49:15 GMT
Thought about swapping the Bomber for Rok? I will say that I tried the Hauler/Raider combo and found it fairly unwieldy. I wanted the Raiders in a cloud in front of the Hauler for Stumbling Drunk but then wanted the Hauler to activate first in order to Oil a model except my Raiders were blocking the way. And Command 7 on the Raiders makes it difficult to put them to either side. I did consider 2 min units but making the points work was a struggle. Rok isn't great with no bond, no synergy specific to Gunny, and only one other beast. Raiders & Hauler is awkward for exactly that reason, which is why I thought that Snipe might help. It really only needs to be within 10 for Veteran Leader, though. Also, I am learning to place the Raiders in first and second waves, so the second at least could have Stumbling Drunk if they are closer. Rok could actually be quite decent at mulching infantry with Gunny, he gets an assault shot, kill shot as well. |
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Jul 24, 2018 12:27:03 GMT
Rok isn't great with no bond, no synergy specific to Gunny, and only one other beast. Raiders & Hauler is awkward for exactly that reason, which is why I thought that Snipe might help. It really only needs to be within 10 for Veteran Leader, though. Also, I am learning to place the Raiders in first and second waves, so the second at least could have Stumbling Drunk if they are closer. Rok could actually be quite decent at mulching infantry with Gunny, he gets an assault shot, kill shot as well. IF he can do that without trading for half a unit. It's just that if I'm playing in SOTN I usually have three beasts tops, and I'm not sure that Primal would be worthwhile then either. |
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Post by chevelle on Aug 2, 2018 8:41:32 GMT
@big Fat Troll : Any reps in with the list that you might want to share ?
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Post by Big Fat Troll on Aug 2, 2018 14:05:17 GMT
@big Fat Troll : Any reps in with the list that you might want to share ? I played the version with the Hooch Hauler on Vassal once. I made a lot of mistakes with a caster and other models I rarely use but still managed to grind out a win against Wurmwood because he was rolling so badly that it took forever to kill the bears. When I killed all of his solos and beasts his scenario lead just wasn't enough to close it out. I still had both of my heavies and he could not stop them without transfers, only slow them down with Stranglehold. The Bomber blew him to bits top of 6. I might still try the version with WE&SJ. |
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