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Post by mcdermott on Jul 19, 2018 0:20:15 GMT
Tried it with the changes to the infiltrators?
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 19, 2018 13:37:16 GMT
Tried it with the changes to the infiltrators? Regrettably not, given how my Ret and I are separated by the better part of two continents and a fourteen hour direct commercial flight.
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Post by groedius on Jul 19, 2018 18:46:49 GMT
Tried it with the changes to the infiltrators? Regrettably not, given how my Ret and I are separated by the better part of two continents and a fourteen hour direct commercial flight. You can either proxy the models or you could use vassal and play online. An list with the 3 units could be interesting though
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 20, 2018 1:45:36 GMT
I think the new change to the SF is going to be too much. Minifeat + CRA is going to be overwhelming on the assassination.
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 20, 2018 2:34:34 GMT
I think the new change to the SF is going to be too much. Minifeat + CRA is going to be overwhelming on the assassination. Possibly but still debatable. It really needs to be taken into account on what you are trying ro assassinate and if the opponent can end up within 12 inches (16 on ravyn). Dont forget that at pow 12 higher armor casters naturally have a higher advantage over the unit, same can be said for casters with native def 16. With the ability to pay focus or transfer through fury i get a feeling that its being over assummed on the assassination potential when in reality is they go against a fully healthy average warcaster they will fail to kill even in 5 attacks. At dice minus 7 to hit (rat 8 vs def 15) the odds of hitting are around 43% using averages. And at dice minus 4 (pow 12 vs arm 16) your odds of damaging are high in the 80s%. But having 16 hp average with two focus or fury means even if all attacks hit and you get your 4 pow 12s and one pow 13. You still will be short on damage leaving the caster alive. If your planning to prove me wrong and say use 2 or 3 units of strikeforce to do it then you should kill them as you have spend 40 to 60 pounts to do so. Though the latter argument can be said for any models or units in enough numbers
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Post by snotling on Jul 20, 2018 4:21:43 GMT
Its not just about the points spent, ist about possibilitys of counter play, and for some factions those are very limited against strike force. A caster shound not just die if you activate 60 points, he should die, because he made a mistake, or you made very good play. Moving models into range and ignoring a lot of rules is neither.
Also comparing the unbuffed unit isn't worth very much, you have to take into account the casters that buff them the most, as those will be the ones the strike force will be taken with.
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 20, 2018 6:52:40 GMT
Its not just about the points spent, ist about possibilitys of counter play, and for some factions those are very limited against strike force. A caster shound not just die if you activate 60 points, he should die, because he made a mistake, or you made very good play. Moving models into range and ignoring a lot of rules is neither. Also comparing the unbuffed unit isn't worth very much, you have to take into account the casters that buff them the most, as those will be the ones the strike force will be taken with. Remember the easiest vounter play to ranged units. "Run to engage." Thats the best counterplay problem is some net lists and players forget this.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 20, 2018 9:47:38 GMT
And AoEs, good Lord I hate blasts against my MHSF. With Arm 11 they just die... And with a good amount of 4+ AoEs out there currently it's hard to spread them out enough.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 20, 2018 13:40:03 GMT
Eh, there's plenty of counterplay (Sac Pawn, Sucker, Shield Guards, Stealth...(!), AOE spamming, run-to-engage, Krueger2), but some factions have more of it than others, and some themes have very limited access to it, so you can see why it can be a PitA for some.
Still, it doesn't seem anyone's seriously gunning for the assassination owing to proximity required and their inherent flakiness, so eh... looks like they might keep CRA.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 21, 2018 9:18:22 GMT
I guess we've all put Snipe Feat Go out of our heads already.
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Post by onijet01 on Jul 21, 2018 21:28:29 GMT
I guess we've all put Snipe Feat Go out of our heads already. Its jotbthat i have not though about it but its just not as viable as it used to be in mkii. The large fact is in mkii you could not transfer their damage or use over feilds to reduce the damage. In mkiii those can happy with makes the idea of snipe feat go a less that usable stratagy But speaking for Ossyan with shatterstorm gives the magehunter strikeforce a huge out vs solos and unit attachments/leaders that can return models to play. Their roll has taken a fundimental shift from strictly a snipe-feat-go playstyle to a well rounded assult troop thats capable of scalping out supports and battling key targets to optimize the armys physical footprint into the opponents game plan.
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Post by mcdermott on Jul 21, 2018 23:01:18 GMT
It never existed in mk3 so the assumption that its not as viable is kind of just that, an assumption. Boosted pow 12's still kill casters and ossyan is a thing.
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bluebeard
Junior Strategist
crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women
Posts: 293
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Post by bluebeard on Jul 22, 2018 0:20:39 GMT
It never existed in mk3 so the assumption that its not as viable is kind of just that, an assumption. Boosted pow 12's still kill casters and ossyan is a thing. Assuming something will be bad without play testing it is still an assumption as well. Play a few games and see how the old snipe, feat, go does. Then you will know for sure, and gives everyone a BR to read We can theorize all day, but without putting those theories to the test, all we have is conjuncture.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 25, 2018 14:13:55 GMT
Right... well, I actually got around to playing a heavily proxied test game. The assassination threat is quite real, but it is very easy to mitigate and it takes a combination of multiple casters' rules to make it as bad as SFG from MkII.
Early opportunistic attrition based losses, Shield Guards, Sucker, Sac Pawn, Stealth can all shut down the assassination run. FA 2, I think is also key to preventing this being a silly click and go sort of thing.
Depending on what anti-ranged tech is taken (or even if none is taken) and who the Ret caster is, it can turn into just a mind game between the players, which, admittedly, I both like and dislike, but that's my conclusion.
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Post by forthehorde on Jul 31, 2018 17:27:57 GMT
Everyone mentions ossyan without mentioning he has to be within 14 inches of the enemy caster and not die next turn. That's a big gamble.
The strike force seemed in a pretty good spot to me. Run and engage still works well against them. Aoe bombs will melt then quite easily. Even if you give them snipe most aoe models have access to the same snipe spell.
They're much better off playing the attrition game and contesting points. I doubt I'd rely on them for any real assassination run considering I can ambush the harder hitting infiltrators. And with the right caster turn them into pow 16 combo strikes on the charge. In elara 2s case on feat turn you can be 12.5 threat at pow 16 3d6.
Mhsf would be much better at clearing the lane for that or whatever jack assassination you have setup.
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