germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358 
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Post by germanicus on Jul 5, 2018 5:45:22 GMT
Changes to Moros (i.e. his bond now actually works/can be taken independently of Garryth in Shadows... or rather, expected) make anyone more interested in him (whether with Garryth or otherwise)?
Garryth in Defenders with Moros seems an OK idea (for the time being, at least).
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jul 5, 2018 18:05:56 GMT
I like heightened reflexes on Rysovas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So we can start there if you want to get a list rolling.  |
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 6, 2018 1:56:09 GMT
Moros still doesn't have magical weapons and costs 50% more than other light jacks... pass.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jul 6, 2018 12:08:32 GMT
I don't know; Paralysis is unshakeable. All kinds of basically unstoppable melee threat. POW 15's (c'mon, you're going to Arcanist, we all know it) on Mat 7 boostable. 11 might be a point high, but I wouldn't say he's outrageous. edit: Also, he's one of the best warjack sculpts and needs to be seen. |
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 6, 2018 13:05:29 GMT
I don't know; Paralysis is unshakeable. All kinds of basically unstoppable melee threat. POW 15's (c'mon, you're going to Arcanist, we all know it) on Mat 7 boostable. 11 might be a point high, but I wouldn't say he's outrageous. edit: Also, he's one of the best warjack sculpts and needs to be seen.
He's going up to 12 points.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jul 6, 2018 16:46:33 GMT
(Looks at Cryx stalker for comparison)…nope, not impressed. Stalkers threaten casters at a base range of 13”, (15” with Aiakos) and have a place effect (instead of a bond for acrobatics) while costing 66% what Moros does. They’re also not FA: C, and this kind of model IS one that scales in effectiveness the more of ‘em are on the table.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jul 6, 2018 17:17:51 GMT
I don't know; Paralysis is unshakeable. All kinds of basically unstoppable melee threat. POW 15's (c'mon, you're going to Arcanist, we all know it) on Mat 7 boostable. 11 might be a point high, but I wouldn't say he's outrageous. edit: Also, he's one of the best warjack sculpts and needs to be seen.
He's going up to 12 points.
Maybe? He's still got to go through CID. 12 points may not stick, and seems part of the kit that won't given arguments like the ones here. You can't ever compare anything to a Cryx (prolly full stop, but we'll keep going) light warjack. They get things and do things that no one else can. I personally would like to see grievous on Moros blades, which I think fits with being Garyths companion. And then he can stay at 11 and I am happy with him. Then he's quick stealthy killer that's hard to get a hold of, but if you do you'll probably kill him. That seems balanced and I like balanced. Be a nice tool into stuff like Trolls as well. |
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 6, 2018 18:53:38 GMT
He's going up to 12 points.
Maybe? He's still got to go through CID. 12 points may not stick, and seems part of the kit that won't given arguments like the ones here. You can't ever compare anything to a Cryx (prolly full stop, but we'll keep going) light warjack. They get things and do things that no one else can. I personally would like to see grievous on Moros blades, which I think fits with being Garyths companion. And then he can stay at 11 and I am happy with him. Then he's quick stealthy killer that's hard to get a hold of, but if you do you'll probably kill him. That seems balanced and I like balanced. Be a nice tool into stuff like Trolls as well. And against anything that is boostable and ignores stealth he dies on the bottom of 1 or top of 2 at range. I'd love to squeeze him into a Vyros1 Shadows list but I can't see myself paying more than 10 for a light warjack. |
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Post by psycomonky on Jul 6, 2018 19:36:13 GMT
I don't know; Paralysis is unshakeable. All kinds of basically unstoppable melee threat. POW 15's (c'mon, you're going to Arcanist, we all know it) on Mat 7 boostable. 11 might be a point high, but I wouldn't say he's outrageous. edit: Also, he's one of the best warjack sculpts and needs to be seen. Paralysis is also range 8 which is just at the edge of walk and attack for a number of heavies. This also leaves Moros ripe for infantry swarm charges which will bring his arm16 to its knees if they have a way to hit def14.
Concentrated power on a light is wasted when it could be on a heavy. Basically for that cost he doesn't do enough to justify not just taking a sphinx or some other jack. Far to expensive for the relevant abilities. Hopefully they will take that into account.
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Post by oncomingstorm on Jul 6, 2018 20:17:01 GMT
I don't know; Paralysis is unshakeable. All kinds of basically unstoppable melee threat. POW 15's (c'mon, you're going to Arcanist, we all know it) on Mat 7 boostable. 11 might be a point high, but I wouldn't say he's outrageous. edit: Also, he's one of the best warjack sculpts and needs to be seen. Paralysis is also range 8 which is just at the edge of walk and attack for a number of heavies. This also leaves Moros ripe for infantry swarm charges which will bring his arm16 to its knees if they have a way to hit def14.
Concentrated power on a light is wasted when it could be on a heavy. Basically for that cost he doesn't do enough to justify not just taking a sphinx or some other jack. Far to expensive for the relevant abilities. Hopefully they will take that into account.
Aye, and when you strip away the acrobatics bond...with any other caster he's basically just a worse Griffon with a very situational paralysis ability. deathbymelancholy - I think that if anything, the fact that the stalker is in the 'lol, I don't care what your defense or armor is' faction makes it worse, not better. There's no circumstance in Ret where Moros is going to be reliably removing heavies from 12+ inches away, while the same is most definitely not true of the Stalker. |
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 6, 2018 20:38:12 GMT
I mean, I'm sure in the process of testing things during CID I'll try something with him since I've got a shadows list with other things in CID. Maybe something like this:
[Vyros 1] Dawnlord Vyros [+28]
- Banshee [18]
- Imperatus [20]
- Moros [12]
- Siren [8]
- Siren [8]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19]
- Soulless Escort (1) [1]
Spears of Scyrah [9]
- Eiryss, Mage Hunter Commander [0]
It would feel WAY better at 10 pts for Moros ( or if he counts towards free points in Shadows) so you could squeeze in a 3rd mechanik. Even in this list he's not THAT useful. Sure, one game out of 100 you'll live the dream of sending him in on a caster and actually landing the paralysis on feat turn or land his gunshot on a caster that doesn't have 25 shield guards or sac pawn before you send in a feated Imperatus for the kill... but is that REALLY worth 12 points? I think having a Harpy, 3rd mechanik and a soulless on the Spears is going to be a stronger option almost every time.
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Post by deathbymelancholy on Jul 9, 2018 11:44:02 GMT
Had a response. Realized after years of playing I just don't care about defending my opinions anymore. Kind of sad that.
Cheers.
OP, if you want to spitball a list you can PM me.
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isotope
Junior Strategist
Posts: 634
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Post by isotope on Jul 9, 2018 12:38:18 GMT
Hey man, i agree that moros is a cool looking model. Im happy that they're taking a look at him. Ive tried to make him work in mk3 and sadly in his current state there's just better options. I think opening him up to all casters in shadows theme is a start but theyre gonna have to give him something better than that to make him worth it.
Maybe taking away fleet and replacing it with a " spend one focus, this model gains entropic force for one round" might be something worth exploring if the devs are willing to try it in CID.
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germanicus
Junior Strategist
No jokes round ear...
Posts: 358
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Post by germanicus on Jul 9, 2018 13:49:51 GMT
Had a response. Realized after years of playing I just don't care about defending my opinions anymore. Kind of sad that. Cheers. OP, if you want to spitball a list you can PM me. Thanks. I was mainly going for a bit of discussion, since I won't be playing much Ret outside of mass proxy (I'm in one place... and my Ret, all 1200+ pts of it... is in another place for the foreseeable future... eight time zones away...!). I might play some CID games by way of mass proxy should the opportunity arise, though. Off the top of my head, with all changes as they are, I was thinking of a Halb centric list with an AFG, double SFA (mmmmmm... lovely AM), Moros and something else with Garryth, solos to taste, as a fast assassination oriented... thing... Incidentally, I don't care much for defending my opinions mainly because I'm terrible at expressing myself coherently and not resort to patronising eloquence. Eh... what did you have in mind? |
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