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Post by DoctorGandalf on Jun 30, 2018 19:14:50 GMT
Hi folks!
I'm thinking about taking a break from my main faction and trying out CG. However, I'm not a huge fan of transporting huge bases, especially en masse. Do y'all reckon Crucible needs Vulcan and the railless, or can they field a reasonable prima materia list without them? I'm especially interested in a melee-focused pm list, with assault troopers getting buffs and several toros to act as a counterpoint to a mainline shooting magnum opus list.
Thanks for the help!
Edit because being sickness slows the brain: The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the hype I heard about was specifically following the huge bases. Also, Vulcan is a beast and my first thought in pm usually is to add him.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2018 16:16:58 GMT
Having now gotten in three games against CG I can safely say that Vulcan under Locke is near broken. It is extremely difficult to remove after it gets fed feat tokens and you really CAN'T help but feed it feat tokens. Battle engines remain to be seen (on the battle table) but at least that combo is a pretty difficult one to take on.
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Post by danfromchicago on Jul 2, 2018 16:28:20 GMT
I would think you could reduce the impact of the feat by using hard hitting infantry?
That's going to be more difficult for some armies then other, to be certain
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2018 17:43:57 GMT
Only if you can deliver the hard hitters through.....
1) The barrage of POW 14 AOE guns (I think most Locke lists will run 2 Vindicators and 1 Vulcan so like 5 shots) 2) THe sprays off the Vulcan itself (POW 14 and corrosion) 3) Supressors. 4) And possible DBR to lower arm and another POW 14/16 shot.
All of those are likely to be at around RAT 7 due to Prospero running around.
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 2, 2018 18:04:01 GMT
Only if you can deliver the hard hitters through..... 1) The barrage of POW 14 AOE guns (I think most Locke lists will run 2 Vindicators and 1 Vulcan so like 5 shots) 2) THe sprays off the Vulcan itself (POW 14 and corrosion) 3) Supressors. 4) And possible DBR to lower arm and another POW 14/16 shot. All of those are likely to be at around RAT 7 due to Prospero running around. Toro chassis is RAT5, so Vindicators and Suppressors go to RAT6 with Veteran Leader, 8 if they aim. Vulcan is RAT6 base so he does go to RAT7 from Veteran Leader. DBR is RAT5 and doesn't get vet leader bonus.
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Post by danfromchicago on Jul 2, 2018 20:17:17 GMT
Call me crazy, but I think the meta understands the challenge of delivering infantry into a gun heavy list. I'm not saying it's easy, just a well-understood problem
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 2, 2018 21:13:17 GMT
Call me crazy, but I think the meta understands the challenge of delivering infantry into a gun heavy list. I'm not saying it's easy, just a well-understood problem It's possible that you haven't faced this particular challenge. I played a game against Cyrenia with Errants and Cinerators; going first, not a single one got to make an attack, and they were all dead by the end of Round 3. I've sprayed near entire units of Chosen to death with the Vulcan. I've faced 22 Dawnguard Sentinels, and killed about 18 of them in a single turn. Delivering infantry against a Vulcan, a Suppressor, and a single DBR can be incredibly difficult. Tough and other healing mechanics won't help them. Cover and Concealment won't help them. Speaking specifically about the Vulcan, if single wound, up to ARM19 they die 72% of the time. Up to DEF 13 they are hit 72% of the time. Spray 10 catches a lot in its template. If you are hit, but don't die to the damage roll, you still need to survive the corrosion and or fire continuous check. Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible to deliver infantry in this MU. But I am saying that I would not formulate a plan to counter it which relies upon delivering weaponmaster infantry. I'm not saying that they don't exist, but I can't actually think of any weaponmasters in the game who would have a solid chance of making it into combat with a Vulcan. Can you?
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2018 22:53:08 GMT
Call me crazy, but I think the meta understands the challenge of delivering infantry into a gun heavy list. I'm not saying it's easy, just a well-understood problem It's possible that you haven't faced this particular challenge. I played a game against Cyrenia with Errants and Cinerators; going first, not a single one got to make an attack, and they were all dead by the end of Round 3. I've sprayed near entire units of Chosen to death with the Vulcan. I've faced 22 Dawnguard Sentinels, and killed about 18 of them in a single turn. Delivering infantry against a Vulcan, a Suppressor, and a single DBR can be incredibly difficult. Tough and other healing mechanics won't help them. Cover and Concealment won't help them. Speaking specifically about the Vulcan, if single wound, up to ARM19 they die 72% of the time. Up to DEF 13 they are hit 72% of the time. Spray 10 catches a lot in its template. If you are hit, but don't die to the damage roll, you still need to survive the corrosion and or fire continuous check. Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible to deliver infantry in this MU. But I am saying that I would not formulate a plan to counter it which relies upon delivering weaponmaster infantry. I'm not saying that they don't exist, but I can't actually think of any weaponmasters in the game who would have a solid chance of making it into combat with a Vulcan. Can you? I think (it wouldn't be good against most OTHER things) would be OW2 with Bad Santas, Doomreavers and PROBABLY a shield guard (or three) to further protect the doomies. Sprays shut down, AOEs are not going to be that effective (except on the drift) and feels like you have to remove the bad santas with something janky like running an arc node close enough to Bombard it. Not "undoable" but an interesting puzzle. I would having to lay it out on a table to actually see if it worked. I think with adequate blockage it will be "hardish" to get anything to the witch her self
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 2, 2018 22:57:29 GMT
It's possible that you haven't faced this particular challenge. I played a game against Cyrenia with Errants and Cinerators; going first, not a single one got to make an attack, and they were all dead by the end of Round 3. I've sprayed near entire units of Chosen to death with the Vulcan. I've faced 22 Dawnguard Sentinels, and killed about 18 of them in a single turn. Delivering infantry against a Vulcan, a Suppressor, and a single DBR can be incredibly difficult. Tough and other healing mechanics won't help them. Cover and Concealment won't help them. Speaking specifically about the Vulcan, if single wound, up to ARM19 they die 72% of the time. Up to DEF 13 they are hit 72% of the time. Spray 10 catches a lot in its template. If you are hit, but don't die to the damage roll, you still need to survive the corrosion and or fire continuous check. Now, I'm not saying that it's impossible to deliver infantry in this MU. But I am saying that I would not formulate a plan to counter it which relies upon delivering weaponmaster infantry. I'm not saying that they don't exist, but I can't actually think of any weaponmasters in the game who would have a solid chance of making it into combat with a Vulcan. Can you? I think (it wouldn't be good against most OTHER things) would be OW2 with Bad Santas, Doomreavers and PROBABLY a shield guard (or three) to further protect the doomies. Sprays shut down, AOEs are not going to be that effective (except on the drift) and feels like you have to remove the bad santas with something janky like running an arc node close enough to Bombard it. Not "undoable" but an interesting puzzle. I would having to lay it out on a table to actually see if it worked. I think with adequate blockage it will be "hardish" to get anything to the witch her self You can't reduce the range of sprays. Koldun Lords only prevent ranged attacks while within 9" of a model. Vulcan Sprays are Spray10". You cannot Shield Guard sprays. That's an easily defeatable (and, in this case, ineffective) piece of tech in this MU.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2018 23:02:11 GMT
I think (it wouldn't be good against most OTHER things) would be OW2 with Bad Santas, Doomreavers and PROBABLY a shield guard (or three) to further protect the doomies. Sprays shut down, AOEs are not going to be that effective (except on the drift) and feels like you have to remove the bad santas with something janky like running an arc node close enough to Bombard it. Not "undoable" but an interesting puzzle. I would having to lay it out on a table to actually see if it worked. I think with adequate blockage it will be "hardish" to get anything to the witch her self You can't reduce the range of sprays. Koldun Lords only prevent ranged attacks while within 9" of a model. Vulcan Sprays are Spray10". You cannot Shield Guard sprays. That's an easily defeatable (and, in this case, ineffective) piece of tech in this MU. Seems like the Vulcan shooting ONE or 2 koldun lords from max range when a shit load of Doom reavers are right behind is well....winning
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 2, 2018 23:16:23 GMT
You can't reduce the range of sprays. Koldun Lords only prevent ranged attacks while within 9" of a model. Vulcan Sprays are Spray10". You cannot Shield Guard sprays. That's an easily defeatable (and, in this case, ineffective) piece of tech in this MU. Seems like the Vulcan shooting ONE or 2 koldun lords from max range when a shit load of Doom reavers are right behind is well....winning So you are sticking a Koldun Lord at the front of your army, and Doom Reavers behind it? That's a very strange formation. Again, let's just play this out to see if your weird tech actually works. It's way too hypothetical to draw conclusions from.
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Post by sand20go on Jul 2, 2018 23:28:53 GMT
Seems like the Vulcan shooting ONE or 2 koldun lords from max range when a shit load of Doom reavers are right behind is well....winning So you are sticking a Koldun Lord at the front of your army, and Doom Reavers behind it? That's a very strange formation. Again, let's just play this out to see if your weird tech actually works. It's way too hypothetical to draw conclusions from. I have a LOT more OW2 to play before getting to that one. Just dojo;ing it out but I do think with here that is the way to play it - let the KL die if it means that doomreavers get to live ;-)
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jul 3, 2018 15:54:48 GMT
Running infantry of any sort into Crucible just seems like a non-starter tbh, probably better off spamming heavies if you can. (note to self, buy more Rhulic heavies for Ossrum)
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Post by Trollock on Jul 3, 2018 19:03:12 GMT
Hi folks! I'm thinking about taking a break from my main faction and trying out CG. However, I'm not a huge fan of transporting huge bases, especially en masse. Do y'all reckon Crucible needs Vulcan and the railless, or can they field a reasonable prima materia list without them? I'm especially interested in a melee-focused pm list, with assault troopers getting buffs and several toros to act as a counterpoint to a mainline shooting magnum opus list. Thanks for the help! Edit because being sickness slows the brain: The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the hype I heard about was specifically following the huge bases. Also, Vulcan is a beast and my first thought in pm usually is to add him. To get back to the topic... I think you can do very fine without the huge bases. I tested several non-huge based builds in the cid and it felt quite good. Go for it!
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Juris
Junior Strategist
Posts: 578
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Post by Juris on Jul 4, 2018 5:18:54 GMT
Hi folks! I'm thinking about taking a break from my main faction and trying out CG. However, I'm not a huge fan of transporting huge bases, especially en masse. Do y'all reckon Crucible needs Vulcan and the railless, or can they field a reasonable prima materia list without them? I'm especially interested in a melee-focused pm list, with assault troopers getting buffs and several toros to act as a counterpoint to a mainline shooting magnum opus list. Thanks for the help! Edit because being sickness slows the brain: The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the hype I heard about was specifically following the huge bases. Also, Vulcan is a beast and my first thought in pm usually is to add him. To get back to the topic... I think you can do very fine without the huge bases. I tested several non-huge based builds in the cid and it felt quite good. Go for it! I agree, I think that you can do fine without huge bases. However, I would recommend getting a Vulcan. Just the one huge base. It's very good, you'll enjoy playing it, and it increases the power level of the faction considerably.
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