demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 30, 2018 1:58:21 GMT
I've been thinking pretty hard on this and can't quite figure out the answer. I've been considering possible synergies but they all fall apart.
Essentially, Xerxis1's feat, battleplan, and spells are pretty bad ass. His only downfall is his 5 fury. So how come there aren't many successful lists with him? He fixes so many issues with our other units and his feat... well... close to the best in game? Charging weapon masters with an additional di of damage = 5 di damage roll x.x; Even our defensive infantry can frigg'n slaughter under his feat... he even has 28 bp! So why isn't he the go too caster? Is it because of the theme machine? The best theme for him is MoW but Makeda2 works better for the kitty cat lists? What is hindering him!? driving me insane x.x whenever I think up of a list for him I either don't have enough points or can't match him with what I want to.
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Post by Charistoph on Jun 30, 2018 2:26:11 GMT
Sometimes it is not something is bad, but something is better. Simple.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 30, 2018 3:13:42 GMT
and that is where the issue comes up. Xerxis1 has all the equipment you are looking for in a caster and more... his only flaw is his 5 fury and medium base size... he amps up everything beyond belief... so why isn't there one of those lists where he is better?
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 30, 2018 5:28:32 GMT
Fury5. 3 Spells out of which 1 is great, 1 is good and 1 is Locomotion. His feat is only okay, would be good at >10". Supports turtles only decently.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 30, 2018 6:00:10 GMT
x.x so your answer is basically "it doesn't boost turtles enough." There is actually a lot of factions that would take him JUST for his feat. When I first mentioned to people that it is on ALL melee attacks and not just the first they thought I was joking x.x; I do believe he could use some additional spells but he's only fury 5 to start with. When you consider him using a Krea aura or rush from the gladiator, he is already sitting on a very small stack every turn after paying for tactical supremecy and Defender's Ward.
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zich
Junior Strategist
Posts: 690
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Post by zich on Jun 30, 2018 6:29:02 GMT
So if people are impressed that much by Xerxis1's feat, don't show them Butcher1 or their heads might explode.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jun 30, 2018 11:54:29 GMT
he is suppose to be Khador's version of Xerxis. However, I'll still take Xerxis. 6 Focus on a warcaster is such a hard nerf, focus 7 can even gimp a caster. Yeah, Khador has a lot of weapons to amp his feat up to the nth but you're looking at a medium based caster who will be sitting on 1 or zero focus every round, which just doesn't cut it. Warlocks have a much higher survivability factor in that they can dump a huge chunk of damage off to another model with 1 fury instead of being limited to cutting it down to 5. I do envy his spell list, but every warcaster is envied for their spell list, can't be helped; PP absolutely loves making horde players pay from both ends when it comes to our locks and beasts. Plus... Obliteration on a 6 focus caster that likes to be right up near the center of combat...
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Post by oranjejus on Jul 1, 2018 22:19:46 GMT
I've played only since shortly before mk3's release. Upon mk3's release, Xerxis1 has been in every tournament pair of mine ever since (except that 1 tourney I solo listed Xekaar, but that's a .... story.) I explicitly tried to not take him last tournament, but failed Tho I did relegate him to my 'off list' and only played him twice, where-as Zaal1 got 4 games. I'm trying to not crutch on him this year so I can better experience other parts of our faction (ok, ok.... Zaal1) but he works so damn well for me I've been making Exalted lists under him when I'm not staying on-task. Essentially, he has everything I need to suit my personal play-style, and he's been allowing me to move from pro-active, to reactive play, and then back again on a turn-by-turn basis. Most importantly tho, I've never had an un-fun game with him. My answer to your question about what is hindering your plans for him, is probably lack of experience playing him. How did you put it? "he amps up everything beyond belief... so why isn't there one of those lists where he is better?" Because he plays _his own lists_. I too have never found a way to shoe-horn a successful list that other casters are running into Xerxis1. This is for a number of reasons, but you've already identified the main one: He's Fury 5. He has to be ready to feat at any time and for me he doesn't just support the army, he's a part of it. Many games those Pillars claim lives. I've found Xerxis1 play is about risk analysis and management. There is no keeping Xerxis1 safe, there's only keeping him safe-enough. Given that, I build my lists such that they are unique to him and I couldn't imagine using them with anyone else. There are so many shenanigans that he pulls off in actual play that I didn't really understand him until I got time in to experiment. It's been hard to shake the addiction since. He's just so much.... fun. I say take one of your "almost" lists and make a brutal sub-optimal cut to fit the points. I don't really understand what you mean by "or can't match him with what I want to." tho. As in, you want him to be an off-list for a main in your pair?
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 2, 2018 0:06:45 GMT
Willbreakers and turtles tend to be the answer of what I'd like to take, but can't. Willbreakers can just be unfair at times with their dishing out of tough and turtles are, unfortunately, the best skorne model. Of course, willbreakers are the ones that really shine in his lists, turtles are such a horrendous threat that it makes getting the rest of his army up the board for feat turn an absolute breeze. I will agree though, Xerxis1 is without a doubt, the funnest caster I've ever played when I don't play him stupid (our cygnar players love to abuse that medium base LoS). I've been thinking of using him as an anti-cryx (no corpses, construct models only, all with magical weapons, souls go to ample enough of in combat collectors) with exhalted theme or as an anti-arm spam with MoW. Just the thought of getting even 8 swordsmen under power swell and his feat makes me drool
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Jul 2, 2018 4:04:38 GMT
I usually run him in masters paired with a morghoul2 turtle-line in winds.
I will agree that the biggest issue I have with him is his lists footprint. With fury 5 and many of his abilities tied to his command range you need to brick up with him. That's nothing new for xerxis but I definitely would not try to play him on spread the net. Ferox help the issue as he can slap dward on them turn 1 and let them run off to do their thing. Also bringing zadesh along to run some of his BG is critical. Letting zadesh cast rush or the krea aura leves xerxis free to upkeep his spells and camp a few on the turns he's not lurching tibbers a mile downfield.
I've found he works best with small groups of elite models he can layer skornes copious defensive buffs on.
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Post by oranjejus on Jul 2, 2018 4:35:48 GMT
Willbreakers and turtles tend to be the answer of what I'd like to take, but can't. Willbreakers can just be unfair at times with their dishing out of tough and turtles are, unfortunately, the best skorne model. Of course, willbreakers are the ones that really shine in his lists, turtles are such a horrendous threat that it makes getting the rest of his army up the board for feat turn an absolute breeze. I will agree though, Xerxis1 is without a doubt, the funnest caster I've ever played when I don't play him stupid (our cygnar players love to abuse that medium base LoS). I've been thinking of using him as an anti-cryx (no corpses, construct models only, all with magical weapons, souls go to ample enough of in combat collectors) with exhalted theme or as an anti-arm spam with MoW. Just the thought of getting even 8 swordsmen under power swell and his feat makes me drool I managed to get 7 swordsmen onto a Mountain King. It died. I also put 6 onto Karchev, but he didn't last beyond swordsmen #4.
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gordo
Junior Strategist
My star is green?
Posts: 548
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Post by gordo on Jul 2, 2018 13:05:18 GMT
I ran X1 for a while, and I found three major issues:
1. Single wound infantry hate. It's everywhere and it crushes. Covering fire, continuous effects, auto damage zones... You name it, it hurts badly.
2. Control Area of only 10". With the amount of infantry you have to run for him to work, it's basically impossible for him to get more than half of his army covered. This was incredibly debilitating, almost game breaking in any live scenario.
3. Clock. To run him well you have to run lots of infantry, but with such a small control area he can't clear and hold enough to make the decisive turn that he needs, so you end up having to play attrition... And with that many models, you lose largely because of clock. You simply can't move enough of them to the right places while still managing your clock correctly. Frustrating.
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Post by bloodsplatterartist on Jul 2, 2018 15:53:59 GMT
Fore reference here's the list I usually take.
War Room Army
Skorne - Xerxis1 Masters of war
Theme: Masters of War 2 / 2 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army
Stockpile - Steamroller Objective
Tyrant Xerxis - WB: +28 - Tiberion - PC: 22 (Battlegroup Points Used: 22) - Basilisk Krea - PC: 7 (Battlegroup Points Used: 6) - Agonizer - PC: 6
Mortitheurge Willbreaker - PC: 4 Tyrant Zaadesh - PC: 4 - Titan Gladiator - PC: 15
Cataphract Cetrati - Leader & 5 Grunts: 18 - Tyrant Vorkesh - PC: 0 Praetorian Ferox - Leader & 4 Grunts: 20 Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer - Tyrant & Bearer: 0 Paingiver Beast Handlers - Leader & 5 Grunts: 7
I'll usually drop the beast handlers down to a min and bring a feralgeist or tinkerer as well.it does well into other tough infantry lists like trolls or cryx but not into infantry lists that bring alot of blessed or denial options like menoth and ret. But that's what the pair is for. I like to use the ferox to get up the field and contest the scenario. With lower model count I don't have to worry about the clock. I just focus on attrition until I can find a way to lurch tiberion onto their caster.
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demonic
Junior Strategist
Posts: 649
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Post by demonic on Jul 2, 2018 16:21:46 GMT
I know someone who often talks to a few people that work at PP, perhaps I should give him a shove and nudge about turning his feat and spells into model/unit. His beasts would still be caught in the 10 inch but his infantry would have enough freedom to charge out and slaughter as long as a member of the squad stays back.
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Post by challenger on Jul 4, 2018 9:46:57 GMT
he is suppose to be Khador's version of Xerxis. However, I'll still take Xerxis. 6 Focus on a warcaster is such a hard nerf, focus 7 can even gimp a caster. Yeah, Khador has a lot of weapons to amp his feat up to the nth but you're looking at a medium based caster who will be sitting on 1 or zero focus every round, which just doesn't cut it. Warlocks have a much higher survivability factor in that they can dump a huge chunk of damage off to another model with 1 fury instead of being limited to cutting it down to 5. I do envy his spell list, but every warcaster is envied for their spell list, can't be helped; PP absolutely loves making horde players pay from both ends when it comes to our locks and beasts. Plus... Obliteration on a 6 focus caster that likes to be right up near the center of combat... Butcher1 is a better caster than Xerxis1. Applying that feat to guns as well as melee of khador statted troops is very blunt, but powerful in a vacuum. A bit too honest for mk3 though. Butcher has an easier time applying it since larger control area + applying to guns = good!. Fury is also a better ability than Stir the Blood because when you are foc 6 and can bring someone like Sylys for a free upkeep Butcher can cycle it around. I doubt Butcher will ever waste his time casting Obliteration in the same way there is no nuke on Xerxis1's card even. But arguing over Butcher vs Bad Skorne Butcher is missing the forest for the trees. single wound melee infantry are mostly dead. Just consider the meta and Xerxis is a blunt caster in a meta of far, far blunter casters. Thats not even considering getting sprayed down, gunlined down, kruegered, hazard spammed etc. basically, bad life being an infantryman. Bad life being a blunt caster with no way of delivering his powerful dudes.
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