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Post by gedditoffme on Jun 17, 2018 12:32:48 GMT
Hello all,
This place is feeling a bit quiet at the moment. Grymkin seem an amazing faction with a lot of depth despite the limited choices.
So what is your favourite manoeuvre, list or play? Wondering if there’s any amazing ideas we haven’t heard before, or is the quietness because grymkin as a faction have been completely “solved” so no need to discuss.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Jun 17, 2018 13:16:56 GMT
A couple come to mind.
I adore getting aggressive with lights / lessers with the King of Nothing. Basically I shove 2 gorehounds, 4 crabbits and a rattler right in my opponent's face. Kill whatever they can, and make sure the king doesn't need to use any other Arcana to keep himself safe. Then watch your opponent agonize over killing them, as he knows Taste of Ashes is waiting for him, and if he has an infantry-heavy list will kill half his army. it's magnificent.
Another really fun manouvre was when facing Legion of Steel with the Wanderer. Typically Legion of steel makes your life a misery with countercharges, but by making sneaky use of Veil of Mists I was able to get the desired charges off while use Veil to block LoS for the evil countercharging solos (in this case Kovnik Markov, who is so grossly unfair he should be a caster)
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jun 17, 2018 14:59:52 GMT
Favorite moments both come from most recent tournament I played in. Wasn't a huge tournament (12-16 people at most), but was fun.
Both games, I was using the following
Dreamer Crabbit x1 Skin & Moans x3 Cage Rager x1 Rattler x2 Death Knell Gremlin Swarms x4 Karianna Rose Glimmer Imp x1 min Dread Rots
So game 3, I think, I'm paired up against another Grymkin player. We end up both using our Dreamer Lists, his is very similar with one of the Skin & Moans being a Cage Rager instead, and other minor changes (cannot recall). He had paid for his models to be professionally painted, which means they look amazing, but he has little playtime with Grymkin as a result, and frankly paying somebody to paint your models has always rubbed me the wrong way.
Anyways, turn 2 or so I manage to grab one of his Skin&Moans with Abyssal Gate, moving it just into range for it to be charged. I feel kinda bad for surprising him with that, but on the other hand, he's playing the EXACT SAME CASTER. Anyways, I forgot to turn the Skin&Moans around, and with bad dice failed to kill it with both a Skin&Moans and a Rattler charging it.
Next turn, he punishes me for that, and moves his other Skin&Moans on the far side of the table just outside of the charge range of my two Skin&Moans over there. He specifically asks me "You can't use your Abyssal Gate trick on this guy, right? He's too far out of range?" To which I honestly reply yes. He then places his Skin&Moans just out of 10" from the closer of the two Skin&Moans I have on that side, and again confirms that he is out of threat range of "THAT"skin&moans, pointing to the closer one, to which I honestly reply yes.
He forgot the rear one, which was only about 0.5" further back, had Mirage on it. Again, I feel kinda bad preying on his inexperience with Dreamer, but I did answer his questions completely honestly, and he was playing the exact same caster, so should not have been surprised by any of the tricks.
It ended up being a slaughter.
Anyways, game 4, I played vs a guy from my local area (we drove about 2 hours for this tournament). He's a long-time Cryx, just now branching into Legion, and he decided to play Gaspy3, a list I had been struggling with for about 2 months trying to crack.
Turn 1, he moves up (I THINK putting 1 Slayer in range with Abyssal Gate), I move up and kill said jack. Everything else moves to try and prevent as many charges as possible. Dread Rots in front preventing landing zones, Gremlin Swarms and Rattlers blocking off landing zones to the sides, all with the intent of saving my Skin&Moans, as I cannot win without Skin&Moans trading 2-for-1 at the very least.
And to my utter surprise, it WORKED. 1 Slayer went after my cage rager (he was off to the side and kinda far back, due to needing to be in position for the Abyssal Gate) and didn't kill. The rest of his jacks did their best, but overall I think I lost a Rattler, some Dread Rots, and maybe a bit of damage on the Skin&Moans. And I popped the Shadow towards the end of his turn, placing a Cage Rager directly behind one of his slayers.
Come my turn, and I go NUTS. When the dust settles, I killed 6 heavy jacks this turn, leaving him with 1 last heavy, Cankerwurm, a Scavenger bonded to Aiakos, and maybe a few other support models. It was truly glorious, and I had finally slain my personal bugbear.
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Post by gedditoffme on Jun 18, 2018 8:22:59 GMT
Thanks for the stories so far. I did wonder if dreamer could go into slayers, knowing a grymkin heavy needs to trade 2for1 but suspecting they could do trade up to that extent. Shadow is a great option to get 1-2 additional slayers.
Also thanks for the king of nothing light spam. I know I’ve fought grymkin and burnt my clock out trying to work out how to avoid triggering an arcana (usually sacrifice), before realising it’s basically impossible and just taking it on the chin.
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Post by challenger on Jun 19, 2018 6:49:01 GMT
Wow thats a really bad sportsmanship story when your inexperienced opponent asks if they are safe and you lawyer up because they asked about a model 0.5" in front of the one with mirage on it. Thats not good play thats being a jerk
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Post by maplewhisky on Jun 19, 2018 8:08:43 GMT
He had paid for his models to be professionally painted, which means they look amazing, but he has little playtime with Grymkin as a result, and frankly paying somebody to paint your models has always rubbed me the wrong way. Anyways, turn 2 or so I manage to grab one of his Skin&Moans with Abyssal Gate, moving it just into range for it to be charged. I feel kinda bad for surprising him with that, but on the other hand, he's playing the EXACT SAME CASTER. Anyways, I forgot to turn the Skin&Moans around, and with bad dice failed to kill it with both a Skin&Moans and a Rattler charging it. Next turn, he punishes me for that, and moves his other Skin&Moans on the far side of the table just outside of the charge range of my two Skin&Moans over there. He specifically asks me "You can't use your Abyssal Gate trick on this guy, right? He's too far out of range?" To which I honestly reply yes. He then places his Skin&Moans just out of 10" from the closer of the two Skin&Moans I have on that side, and again confirms that he is out of threat range of "THAT"skin&moans, pointing to the closer one, to which I honestly reply yes. He forgot the rear one, which was only about 0.5" further back, had Mirage on it. Again, I feel kinda bad preying on his inexperience with Dreamer, but I did answer his questions completely honestly, and he was playing the exact same caster, so should not have been surprised by any of the tricks. It ended up being a slaughter. This really isn't cool. First up, if someone doesn't want to paint their own minis or doesn't have time, that's totally fine. You can Firetruck off with that attitude. There is nothing wrong with wanting a nice looking army and not having the means to make that happen yourself. Secondly, if it's a new and inexperienced player that's really not cool friend. That's like responding to somebody asking "can this model get pathfinder?" with "No" when you can give it flight or ghostly. Just... Ugh. You owe it to your community to be better than that. Just don't be a dick, christ.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 19, 2018 11:09:30 GMT
He sure showed that new player how to have a good time by 'strictly not lying' to them.
Sounds fun.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jun 19, 2018 12:13:19 GMT
Ok, let me be clear here, since apparently everyone is of the opinion I am a cheating a-hole.
1) This player was NOT new, nor did I say he was new. I said he didn't have a ton of practice with his Grymkin. I know he wasn't new, because I played against him in the last tournament I went to, two years ago, when he was running double colossals (I think. Or Will of the 9 Voices. IDK, it was Mk2, right before Mk3 dropped, and I know he had one of the big boogie-man lists, but that was like, 1/4th of the lists being taken).
2) Everything was marked on the table, so I honestly don't know why he didn't see the mirage, or take it into account, as there was one of PP's upkeep markers with "Mirage" written on it sitting right next to the Skin&Moans.
3) Had he asked any other question, I would have absolutely answered it. Had he asked "am I in your threat range," I would have said "yes. Because of mirage." In your example, if asked "can you give this model pathfinder," I would absolutely answer "I can give it Ghostly," as Ghostly achieves the same thing for the purpose of why the question is being asked. He chose to ask exceedingly specific questions (ex: "your Cage Rager is too far to arc an Abyssal Gate on this Skin&Moans, right?"), to which I gave the specific answer. Hell, I normally give way too much advice, and was having to strictly police myself in this tournament to not tell the other player how to kill me.
4) Apparently I have a different experience and expectation for tournaments then you all do. This was not a friendly game, this was a tournament we all paid to play in, several of us drove 2+ hours to go to, nobody was new to the game, and everyone was trying their best to win. At least in my experience, the friendly reminders like "don't forget Reznik has witchhound," or "don't forget I have hyper-aggressive up," or "oh shoot, I meant to activate my choir first, is that ok?," all of which are find in a casual game, go out the window. But hey, maybe you're different.
5) Finally, in regard to the painting models, I get it. I really do understand not having the time to paint models yourself, and wanting a good looking army. The reason it bugs me is because, in my experience with people who pay for painted armies, they always seem to have more money than sense, and so frequently pursue the newest OP list, jumping faction constantly. These are the players I see who are running double-stormwalls right when colossals are released, or running Will of the Nine with triple Mage Hunters, or running Kharchev with 9 Berserkers, and running them BADLY. So when I hear somebody talking about how they paid for their army to be painted, my mind jumps straight to "oh christ, it's a power gamer who expects the list to carry him," because that tends to be true. I would love to meet somebody for whom that is not the case, but I haven't as of yet.
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Post by octaviusmaximus on Jun 19, 2018 12:56:12 GMT
He specifically asked for threat range and the intention is clear. You decided to be cheeky. That's fine, it doesn't sound fun at all and saying "it's a tournament game" doesn't alleviate that fact.
I don't think you cheated, I think you stuck to the rules too literally. It sounds like neither of you got much out of that game.
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doopsie
Junior Strategist
Posts: 341
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Post by doopsie on Jun 19, 2018 13:14:13 GMT
He specifically asked for threat range and the intention is clear. You decided to be cheeky. That's fine, it doesn't sound fun at all and saying "it's a tournament game" doesn't alleviate that fact. I don't think you cheated, I think you stuck to the rules too literally. It sounds like neither of you got much out of that game. Let's see, things I got out of the game (which I really don't understand that phrase, but whatever): -a painful lesson to turn the model around when you Abyssal Gate it. I tried to kill the Abyssal Gate'd Skin&Moans with both a Skin&Moans and a Rattler, failed, and lost both the Skin&Moans and Rattler in response. -A lesson in how stupidly good Enfeeble is against opposing Dread Rots (it basically took his Dread Rots out of the game). -A lesson that Dreamer is far more than Manifest-on-a-Stick, which has generally been her game plan for me vs other factions. What he got out of the game: -A lesson in using Abyssal Gate to extend control range (Why he never did this to me in response, idk). -A lesson in the dangers of overextending your models (I overextended in trying to kill his Skin&Moans, he punished me for it). -A lesson in paying attention to the markers on the board. -A lesson in not relying completely upon the power of the list, but having some experience with it before What we both got out of it, based upon conversation with him afterwords: -An amusing game of Dreamer v Dreamer, when neither of us had really much experience vs Grymkin But hey, some people on the internet think I was mean, so there's that.
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Post by dirtyharrypotter on Jun 25, 2018 17:32:23 GMT
He specifically asked for threat range and the intention is clear. You decided to be cheeky. That's fine, it doesn't sound fun at all and saying "it's a tournament game" doesn't alleviate that fact. Yes he specifically asked for threat ranges, and then forgets that the exact same model next to it has a threatextender on em. Forgetting things like that looses you games, forgetting things is part of this game's skillceiling. How many reminders is one supposed to give? "yes it's out of that model's and threatrange, and that un's, and that un's.... and that ad nauseum. Save that for practise games, in a tournament one must ask the right questions and don't leave it up to your opponent to remind you of what's usefull to know.
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Post by LoS Jaden on Jun 29, 2018 16:34:06 GMT
Favorite play with Grymkin:
Dreamer vs. Caine 3, Dreamer behind a forest.
Caine moves up and feats, casts Mage Sight and drops it on Dreamer. He hits her, casts Calamity and I arcane vortex, he casts Calamity and I ruin it. Mage Sight goes away, no Calamity on my caster, and Caine sitting exposed in charge range of the Skin and Moans that's gonna Mirage into the forest next turn.
Opponent conceded on the spot.
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unded
Junior Strategist
Posts: 760
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Post by unded on Jun 29, 2018 20:15:52 GMT
Favorite play with Grymkin: Dreamer vs. Caine 3, Dreamer behind a forest. Caine moves up and feats, casts Mage Sight and drops it on Dreamer. He hits her, casts Calamity and I arcane vortex, he casts Calamity and I ruin it. Mage Sight goes away, no Calamity on my caster, and Caine sitting exposed in charge range of the Skin and Moans that's gonna Mirage into the forest next turn. Opponent conceded on the spot. This is a thing of beauty. I swear I'm semi-erect just reading this.
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Post by lordgrimlok on Jun 30, 2018 14:38:32 GMT
Last night I played the Heretic decided to use the Witchwood for the first time in forever. Was playing Thyron, and he had the Fane Knight attachment next to him, and both were just in a forrest. Ran the Glimmer imp up close enough to both, puppet mastered the Witchwood. Siren's call hit without having to reroll, and I got the Fane Knight to walk away. Measurement was iffy, and I boosted gallows through a cage rager and got 5" on the roll. Cage rager activated next and with Fury took out Thyron.
Witchwood was also able to hit his dragoon earlier in the game and turn him around and walk him behind/angled around a house to mess up his plans.
Another bonus was I managed to place a fire wall in front of his sentinels to force him to mini-feat earlier than expected. They were also victimized by pandemonium after he vengeanced one of his models close enough to the Heretic's control area, and were essentially taken out the rest of the game.
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Post by gedditoffme on Jun 30, 2018 22:06:36 GMT
Another bonus was I managed to place a fire wall in front of his sentinels to force him to mini-feat earlier than expected. They were also victimized by pandemonium after he vengeanced one of his models close enough to the Heretic's control area, and were essentially taken out the rest of the game. Nice, I played 2 games yesterday with a similar play: first was with heretic and terrified a triple max iron fang list. Was able to use the threat of desolation acid baths to make them not want to shield wall first turn, instead running into the central zones and spreading out (my rattler had a feast anyway). Once they got closer, Rebuke one unit, wall of fire one of the more clumped up ones, and used hollowmen with my 'feat' to shoot the rest. Played a second game against same opponent with beast brick dreamer. This play was kind of mean but very funny - he had only 2 jacks and no magic weapons. Ended up with 3 gremlin swarms in range of 1 that was contesting 2 central zones - all 3 apparitioned and walked through his front line in a triangle formation to sabotage column 4. This was guaranteed to do 12 damage and strip off the cortex. He now couldn't run or charge, and mischief made him Spd 2 so couldn't even walk out of the gremlin triangle. If he could walk out, he wouldn't have got much futher than the swarms bases anyway. After 2 turns of this both his arms had been ripped off, and even with a different mischief effect he couldn’t hit my rattler once he walked in.
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