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Post by breakthrough on Jun 11, 2018 8:17:49 GMT
Hi guys,
Watcha think about Midas?
His feat reads like a perfect Battlegroup caster, and on the other side his normal spells are buffing infantry so Jack of all trades but Master of none right?
What would u suggest is his biggest weakness? I for me think it's high armour spam, but with 2 Units Slaughterhousers it should work or?
Which Beast Loadout would u suggest with him? I don't really know if many lights for 2-3 Heavy Warbeasts will fit better...
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Post by gobber on Jun 11, 2018 8:44:56 GMT
He's more of an infantry caster. Back in mk2 he used to have a clear game plan of using suicidal advance moving beasts to deliver his infantry, then feating the beasts back for attrition or assassination. He's always liked ranged beasts because they're more effective when feated back. Nowadays, he seems to be leaning more into using the beasts as a gunline.
His biggest weakness is to guns. Both himself and his army. Midas can crack arm very well. Blowing off arm buffs with hex blast, debuffing arm with calamity, and battle lusting a unit is easily achievable in a single turn with the gator fury support. Slaughterhousers are nice with him but force you into thornfall; I'm unsure if that's worthwhile as opposed to the valks/nyss builds.
4 light beasts with guns (they both work well). His infantry cracks arm well enough to let you skip primal/heavies. If you want a heavy, my favorite is snapjaw. He delivers himself regardless of enemy shooting, is the hardest hitter in the faction, and wrong eye with battle lust is a heavy hitter in his own right
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Post by breakthrough on Jun 11, 2018 10:17:35 GMT
Thank you Gobber, that sounds good additionally cause I actually own the Nyss and don't know actually where to play them Do ya know if there is an nyss/valkyries build out there where I can look on it? WWFF would be ok cause I own WE & SJ too In battlecollege they write about Boomhowler too, I have the full unit would u suggest him too? Greetings
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Post by Azahul on Jun 11, 2018 10:22:08 GMT
Short answer: No. Sort of. Maybe. But not really. Long answer: Ok, so like you say Midas is a little bit confused conceptually. He really is an infantry Warlock in my experience, my few efforts running him battlegroup heavy have seen the creation of pretty mono-dimensional lists that don't really work into much of the meta. What he does do quite well though is serve as a pair for a better Warlock to answer the specific problems that Warlock cannot. If you look at his loadout, you'll see that he basically has everything. He swings accuracy by 4 (6 if you're a Bone Grinder). He swings damage by 2+d6. He strips upkeeps. Combine that with pig infantry already being some of the most accurate infantry in the game and reasonably hard hitting, there's not a lot he can't break. His big weakness though is delivery. He has no speed buff (let's not count Vengeance) and no defensive spells, so you'll get shot to bits and then get charged. His Feat almost feels like a concession in the vein of "well if your army won't survive long enough to make contact at least you'll be able to bring some of it back". He can only really achieve some game by taking lots of guns himself (and pig guns are largely saddled with Speed 5 and Range 10, so you'll still get shot first) and as many Valkyries as you can find the points for. Personally I find that he laughs at armour. With a horde of pig infantry his list will hit any defence in the game and break any armour. We're talking about achievable Mat 12-13 melee attacks, or P+S 13-14 weapon master attacks from Brigands, Slaughterhousers, and Valkyries. He can't do everything of course, not without a Soul Slave, but locking him into WWFF costs him most of the infantry he does well with and leads to lists with only minimal free points. Thornfall is painful because it offers him no support (he loves a Soul Slave beyond all reason), but it does give him the infantry he wants to support and a better supply of free points. Like gobber, I usually run him with four gun lights. Generally Splatter Boars just to save on points. I wouldn't spend much more than his 30 Warbeast points, Battle Lust and Death March just endear him to infantry too much.
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Post by breakthrough on Jun 11, 2018 10:29:35 GMT
Thx you Azahul for the response. Meanwhile I clicked that in conflictchamber: conflictchamber.com/#cb201b_-0PcU0M0Mfzfz0YjWbFjX750UjD7gMinion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Will Work for Food [Midas 1] Midas [+30] - Gun Boar [9] - Gun Boar [9] - Splatter Boar [8] - Splatter Boar [8] - Targ [0(4)] Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Wrong Eye [17] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5] Farrow Valkyries [8] Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (max) [17] Not real much pig infantry in that list I know But I would have a place for my beloved Howlers and Nyss. Is Targ worth his points or not really needed? I just filled up to the 2 more costed Warbeast cause for reaching the 50pts limit for 2 Solos. Is there anything what I should kick off?
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Post by Azahul on Jun 11, 2018 10:53:31 GMT
If you are running WWFF there is no reason you should ever be taking Targ over a Soul Slave. Targ only really excels with Arkadius anyway, and the Soul Slave gives you about 4ish Fury for Midas each round with the free upkeep and free Battle Lust (or Hex Blast).
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Post by breakthrough on Jun 11, 2018 11:25:01 GMT
Ahhh ok thx Azahul so another solo for me nice What do ya think about the rest? Especially howlers and Nyss, cause I think the other are fix or?
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Post by gobber on Jun 11, 2018 13:40:17 GMT
I would want two more units of valks rather than the boomies. 6 more shield guards really helps against guns; and with calamity and battle lust a unit of Valks will 1-round fresh khador heavies
That also frees up a point; swapping a gun boar for splatter boar turns that into space for a bone shrine if you wanted
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Post by Gaston on Jun 11, 2018 14:41:42 GMT
Meanwhile I clicked that in conflictchamber: conflictchamber.com/#cb201b_-0PcU0M0Mfzfz0YjWbFjX750UjD7gMinion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Will Work for Food [Midas 1] Midas [+30] - Gun Boar [9] - Gun Boar [9] - Splatter Boar [8] - Splatter Boar [8] - Targ [0(4)] Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Wrong Eye [17] Boil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] Farrow Bone Grinders (min) [5] Farrow Valkyries [8] Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (max) [17] Pretty similar to my current list: Midas, WWFF -Soul Slave -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Gun Boar -Gun Boar Orin Midwinter Wrong Eye -Snapjaw Bone Shrine Bone Shrine Valkyries Valkyries Valkyries Nyss (max) Boil Master and Spirit Cauldron In general there are tons of small tweaks and variations you can do (Rorsh vs Wrong Eye, Gun Boar vs Splatter Boar) in order to tailor it to your needs. Husks can be used to provide a solid cloud screen for example. I started with Eilish for Puppet Strings, now I have the Cauldron for Puppet Strings or Season the Sauce or Spectral Lash.
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Post by breakthrough on Jun 11, 2018 15:42:12 GMT
Ok guys, thank you all for the suggestions, so I have a buy in Liste and some advices thats great thanks guys Especially it seems you play this style of List a lot, so it can be that it is not really bullshit
One shot, which I am thinking over are the three Valkyries I am ot sure @ the moment if I want to buy 3 Units of them, they are good I know but the Boomies and Nyss are already here
conflictchamber.com/#cb201b_-0PcU0M0MfzfzjW9ibFjX750UjD7gMinion Army - 75 / 75 points [Theme] Will Work for Food [Midas 1] Midas [+30] - Gun Boar [9] - Gun Boar [9] - Splatter Boar [8] - Splatter Boar [8] - Gatorman Soul Slave [0(5)] Ogrun Bokur [0(5)] -- I ownWrong Eye [17] -- I ownBoil Master & Spirit Cauldron [5] Cylena Raefyll & Nyss Hunters (max) [19] -- I ownFarrow Bone Grinders (min) [5] Farrow Valkyries [8] Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (max) [17] -- I own Aditionally I already own Dannon Blythe and Bull which are allowed in that theme but I dont know if I should play them.
Actually I plan to buy that List and if I get some Money back, I can cut the Boomies down to 11 Points and add a Second Valkyries or kick them complete. But in the first it should be doable or?
Greetings
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Post by gobber on Jun 11, 2018 17:37:16 GMT
The valks are getting a lot of use these days. 3 Shield guards will protect your caster; 9 can entirely hose a gunline by preventing any chance of focus fire. They're pigs first real answer to guns, trade well into infantry due to vengeance+2 atks, and can crack heavies with a damage buff. 3 Valks with just battle lust or carver feat deal ~31.5 to arm20; two valks with battle lust and calamity will average 29 damage.
Blythe and bull are serviceable. Midas can make boomies work well enough that you should be fine for the slow grow. They're just a bit overpriced for what they bring. Nyss have the same problem though to a lesser extent; I'm a little concerned about running them together.
Also not sure about the Bokur now that valks are a thing. Bokurs are fun with battle lust, but WWFF has some of the best solo selection in the game. Orin/Hutchuck/Longchops might do more good with the slot than the additional shield guard
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Post by Gaston on Jun 11, 2018 18:01:40 GMT
Bokur is intriguing bc slam fixes Rat 1 Splatter Power.
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Post by breakthrough on Jun 11, 2018 18:20:38 GMT
Bokur is intriguing bc slam fixes Rat 1 Splatter Power. What?
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Post by gobber on Jun 11, 2018 20:31:51 GMT
Bokur is intriguing bc slam fixes Rat 1 Splatter Power. What? Slams knock targets down for your splatter boars to shoot at. That's pretty valuable for this list, at least sufficient to justify it while there are purchasing constraints on valks. With valks as a sunk cost I think I'd still reach for Hutchuck though; quake shot is less accurate but he's got a host of other tricks to make up for it. Once in a blue moon (~1/9) you'll get a crit knockdown from a valkyrie hammer; it's not something you can rely on but take advantage if you do!
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Post by Gaston on Jun 11, 2018 20:49:21 GMT
IIRC you can use the Splatter animus on Hutchuck for +2 Rat.
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