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Post by sand20go on Jun 5, 2018 13:47:10 GMT
So thinking about some serious jank in a Khador list that works with Croe's. I have some kayazy and then a smattering of merc models around the house. Anything run them well in Mercenaries or are they an overcosted unit that still needs help
(in khador they will be getting IF and then with Greylord Ternion clouds making for a poorman's cloud wall with a BUNCH of doomreavers behind them)
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 5, 2018 13:58:19 GMT
The simple fact is they need Backstab to work properly, and the only Caster in Mercs who can give that to them easily is Exulon Thexus, I guess you could sprint them down a flank to come in and harass from turn 2/3 onwards. I could maybe see them with Ashlynn in Irregulars, put Quicken on them turn 1 and run 16" down the side to get behind stuff, and hope your opponent does not have any ambushing units.
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Post by sand20go on Jun 5, 2018 14:41:05 GMT
The simple fact is they need Backstab to work properly, and the only Caster in Mercs who can give that to them easily is Exulon Thexus, I guess you could sprint them down a flank to come in and harass from turn 2/3 onwards. I could maybe see them with Ashlynn in Irregulars, put Quicken on them turn 1 and run 16" down the side to get behind stuff, and hope your opponent does not have any ambushing units. So the play with Exulon is to go full on Celp. and then add them as the merc unit? Ashlyn would seem possible (would need her character jack) but if I am going to do THAT I might as well pay the Valchev tax and see what they could do hot swapping from quicken on turn 1 to Last stand on Turn 2 with Strakov2. Hmm.......plotting ;-)
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 5, 2018 14:48:15 GMT
The simple fact is they need Backstab to work properly, and the only Caster in Mercs who can give that to them easily is Exulon Thexus, I guess you could sprint them down a flank to come in and harass from turn 2/3 onwards. I could maybe see them with Ashlynn in Irregulars, put Quicken on them turn 1 and run 16" down the side to get behind stuff, and hope your opponent does not have any ambushing units. So the play with Exulon is to go full on Celp. and then add them as the merc unit? Ashlyn would seem possible (would need her character jack) but if I am going to do THAT I might as well pay the Valchev tax and see what they could do hot swapping from quicken on turn 1 to Last stand on Turn 2 with Strakov2. Hmm.......plotting ;-) Ashlynn does not have a merc jack, you may be thinking of Gallant who is Constance Blaize's warjack (would not be surprised if you had never heard of her)
My only concern with Strak 2 and that plan is they will probably be too far away to cycle Last Stand onto unless you have Valachev hanging back at max Cmd, and another Croe hanging back from him at max Cmd.
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Post by fallenexile on Jun 5, 2018 15:20:13 GMT
The simple fact is they need Backstab to work properly, and the only Caster in Mercs who can give that to them easily is Exulon Thexus, I guess you could sprint them down a flank to come in and harass from turn 2/3 onwards. I could maybe see them with Ashlynn in Irregulars, put Quicken on them turn 1 and run 16" down the side to get behind stuff, and hope your opponent does not have any ambushing units. Gastone can give them Ghost Walk to get them through the lines for the back strike. Not as good as charging in on a flank, per se, but it can still be effective.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jun 6, 2018 12:49:13 GMT
I don't think they are bad as a flanking unit threatening to be more damaging than they seem, but they really need something that makes people overlook them in order to be effective. This could be that they are too far away (flanking), too difficult to remove (arm/def buff), or they are running right at your face and you are counting on something else to turn them around (ET).
Without something like that though, they end up in the realm of the Devil Dogs.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 7, 2018 4:56:36 GMT
falling exile is right. crosse2 can put dauntless on them to make them shrug off some blasts and then goat walk them for some backstabs. still not sure i'd do it, tho.
also, i run a min unit with macbain and put countermeasure on them and run them 18" up the board under feat because i am a big jerk. same thing as putting it on rangers in kingmarker only it costs 1 more point and so it is not exactly the same
also also ashlynn can quicken them but that's kinda dumb
and then magnus1 can put snipe on them so backstabs get pretty easy from a safe distance but palaying him is also dumb
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Post by thimnwitt on Jun 7, 2018 11:40:29 GMT
I have had really good results with Damiano and them. Give them Death March and you can threaten farther with the Vengeance moves. Typically in my King Makers list they will hold a flank along with Stannis.
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Jun 7, 2018 15:54:33 GMT
*snip* and then magnus1 can put snipe on them so backstabs get pretty easy from a safe distance but palaying him is also dumb Ossrum can do this too...
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 7, 2018 17:01:57 GMT
*snip* and then magnus1 can put snipe on them so backstabs get pretty easy from a safe distance but palaying him is also dumb Ossrum can do this too... u not wrong but he gots better things to do
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Choco
Junior Strategist
Gorten, best feet in the game.
Posts: 571
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Post by Choco on Jun 7, 2018 17:39:09 GMT
Ossrum can do this too... u not wrong but he gots better things to do The option is still there either way. When it comes to Croe's, I feel they are in an odd spot. I really like them when they had Poison on their weapons with Backstab (back when backstab didn't give the additional die of damage and only +2 to hit, if I am remembering correctly). It helped them be more flexible in their target priority and allowed us to have more interesting play into Hordes factions.
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Xintas
Junior Strategist
Posts: 824
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Post by Xintas on Jun 7, 2018 17:53:19 GMT
I feel that Croe's is a perfect example of the desire to "take nice things" away from units/solos in the mk3 changeover and stockpile them on jacks/beasts. Poison was very strong, totally get that, but without any effective cost decrease they got a dramatically worse ability.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 8, 2018 12:49:58 GMT
I feel that Croe's is a perfect example of the desire to "take nice things" away from units/solos in the mk3 changeover and stockpile them on jacks/beasts. Poison was very strong, totally get that, but without any effective cost decrease they got a dramatically worse ability. Was talking about this sort of thing after a tourney last weekend. In the transition to mk3 they made warjacks pretty much universally cheaper and better, whereas units stayed about the same relative cost wise, with maybe a few tweaks down in rules. However Warjacks becoming more numerous was also an indirect nerf to a lot of infantry in the game. Nyss for example are outstanding at killing other single wound infantry, which is why they were so popular in mk2, however they struggle in an environment full of heavies, couple that with their high cost, and they are just not that appealing atm. The same can be said for Croes, Boomhowlers, Devil Dogs, Sea Dogs.
The resurgence of medium base armies (MoW, Ogryn etc) will further hurt them I think, single wound infantry die pretty easily, and merc character infantry in particular seem too much of a liability (expensive) to try to get good trades out of.
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Post by eterenal on Jun 9, 2018 14:52:38 GMT
I have had really good results with Damiano and them. Give them Death March and you can threaten farther with the Vengeance moves. Typically in my King Makers list they will hold a flank along with Stannis. Echoing this statement. Damiano helps mitigate their weaknesses between Death March, Dead Eye, and the feat. Charles Soong ran a Kingmaker list with trenchers, rangers, and croe's a year or so back. I played the same list for a while and the trenchers really take a load off of the Croe's. They don't seem to function that well as a main unit but when the opponent is busy dealing with a unit of Surefoot trenchers, they act as a good compliment. The list was: Damiano Nomad x 3 Kell Orin Stannis Trenchers (max) + UA + 1 WA Steelhead Halbs (max) x 2 Croe's Rangers It's pretty fun having 30 AD models all with guns.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 9, 2018 15:46:40 GMT
I have had really good results with Damiano and them. Give them Death March and you can threaten farther with the Vengeance moves. Typically in my King Makers list they will hold a flank along with Stannis. Echoing this statement. Damiano helps mitigate their weaknesses between Death March, Dead Eye, and the feat. Charles Soong ran a Kingmaker list with trenchers, rangers, and croe's a year or so back. I played the same list for a while and the trenchers really take a load off of the Croe's. They don't seem to function that well as a main unit but when the opponent is busy dealing with a unit of Surefoot trenchers, they act as a good compliment. The list was: Damiano Nomad x 3 Kell Orin Stannis Trenchers (max) + UA + 1 WA Steelhead Halbs (max) x 2 Croe's Rangers It's pretty fun having 30 AD models all with guns. eh doesnt run it with croes anymore since tlg came out, mr renal
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