shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 6, 2018 14:56:55 GMT
som of u guys sure write a lot of words...
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Post by gobber on Jun 6, 2018 15:30:03 GMT
On the subject of what could change, I don't think they need a UA or solo, Steelheads are meant to be 'cheap, numerous and effective', they are the back-to-basics merc infantry of the Iron Kingdoms, they don't need fancy UAs, they just need to drop down to 12 or 13 points for a full unit. With that said, there is sooooo much room for a Steelhead UA or solo with some sort of battle plans. Faction buffs being standardised opens up a lot of space--but on the other hand, Damiano kind of holds the unit back from getting anything nice, as any buff must be considered on a RAT 7, POW 13 unit. I'd be quite happy to lose Money Shot (which was only ever there to solve the Cygnar Problem of Mk2) to get something caster-independent. Grant Stannis or another solo Paymaster:Steelhead. A unit can only get one coin a turn, so it's not stackable with money shot and you provide the method for them to be functional outside of damiano as well. I for one would love to see a steelhead solo with Walk it Off! (tough) and March! (pathfinder) coins as well.
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Post by 36cygnar24guy36 on Jun 6, 2018 15:37:20 GMT
som of u guys sure write a lot of words... Unfortunately we cannot all be as funny or as clever as you. Your witty retorts and hilarious anecdotes have me in stitches all the time.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 6, 2018 15:42:35 GMT
som of u guys sure write a lot of words... Unfortunately we cannot all be as funny or as clever as you. Your witty retorts and hilarious anecdotes have me in stitches all the time. i can tell from ur avatar
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Post by Sarcastastic on Jun 6, 2018 16:00:14 GMT
I actually really like the idea of a "Steelhead" attachment who gave a rule that would be something like "When in melee, this unit is not considered engaged or engaging, and any units engaging it are considered to not be in combat" (obviously worded better so it doesn't break literally everything). It would let the Rifleman shoot in melee (if attached to them) or the rifleman shoot into groups that the Halberdiers were in melee with. Something like "coordinated tactics: Steelhead Halberdiers" Steelhead Riflemen ignore Halberdiers when checking if something is in melee for the purposes of shooting into melee?
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Post by fallenexile on Jun 6, 2018 16:49:05 GMT
I actually really like the idea of a "Steelhead" attachment who gave a rule that would be something like "When in melee, this unit is not considered engaged or engaging, and any units engaging it are considered to not be in combat" (obviously worded better so it doesn't break literally everything). It would let the Rifleman shoot in melee (if attached to them) or the rifleman shoot into groups that the Halberdiers were in melee with. Something like "coordinated tactics: Steelhead Halberdiers" Steelhead Riflemen ignore Halberdiers when checking if something is in melee for the purposes of shooting into melee? Coordinated Tactics: Steelhead - Steelhead Rifleman ignore all Steelhead models for the purposes of drawing line of sight and ignore all penalties for shooting into melee with models engaged by Steelheads. (?) This may also free up Stannis to change his buff to better benefit the Cavalry side of the Steelheads.
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Post by gobber on Jun 6, 2018 16:53:57 GMT
Something like "coordinated tactics: Steelhead Halberdiers" Steelhead Riflemen ignore Halberdiers when checking if something is in melee for the purposes of shooting into melee? Coordinated Tactics: Steelhead - Steelhead Rifleman ignore all Steelhead models for the purposes of drawing line of sight and ignore all penalties for shooting into melee with models engaged by Steelheads. (?) This may also free up Stannis to change his buff to better benefit the Cavalry side of the Steelheads. My dream for Stannis would be star action desperate pace, the aforementioned paymaster, or a set of battle plans similar to Runewood's. As an aside, I would love to see Reece Keller, the character Steelhead Cavalry Captain from the latest Acts of War book as a cav UA or buff solo. He commands Ashlynn's army and holds his own alongside just Magnus/Stryker/Rowdy+his jr warcaster/Ashlynn/Lukas/Alyce in the climactic battle for the warcaster serum against all of strakhov's forces, so if we were to see any new Steelhead characters he seems a likely candidate.
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shoe
Junior Strategist
Posts: 706
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Post by shoe on Jun 6, 2018 18:26:25 GMT
i do not believe i would play riflemans at 13 points. i believe i would play them a lot at 12 tho, but i have not thought that second statement through
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Post by gobber on Jun 6, 2018 18:47:15 GMT
I could really go for a world in which the rifles were 12 and cav were 14 so two units each of halbs cav and rifles would come in at 74 pts.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 7, 2018 3:49:58 GMT
In terms of the mechanics, character units/solos seem like the way to go. Some of the league fluff shows that particular chapter houses have unusual characters in them (one had an Ogrun Steelhead), which is an easy way to justify atypical expertise in the Steelheads. Could even give some of them animosities if there is a worry about over-powered combinations - maybe this officer left Ternon Crag because of how Stannis operates, so won't send his men to serve with Stannis, and so on. Outside of mercs, theme lists would prevent other factions from maximising the support combos.
Effectively adding a support tax to Steelheads might also raise some interesting questions - do you need the support if you're running Damiano compared to Ashlynn, for example?
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Post by droopingpuppy on Jun 7, 2018 17:59:49 GMT
For now what you can expect is some of them are got killed before make a shot by the opponent's ranged attacks, shoots once, then charged.
RNG 14 groups can bend the way by attack first. Trencher Infantry bend it by Cautious Advance. If everything else are failed, they need to be an all-rounder or another tool for offense or defense.
Despite the fluff that even Long Gunners are enlist Steelhead Rifleman, it is unlikely that they will get something better than military rifle, unless there are some WAs with a long rifle like as their Sea Dogs cousins.
So, without altering the weapons....
1: Reduce the cost. If you expect them to be expendable then they needs to be cheap enough to bear the casualty.
2: Add a CA that gives them either Reposition[3] or give them Snipe once per a game.
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Post by borderprince on Jun 7, 2018 19:51:49 GMT
For now what you can expect is some of them are got killed before make a shot by the opponent's ranged attacks, shoots once, then charged. That's not been my experience, if you're running the Riflemen with Halberdiers + Stannis.
1 - Riflemen go first, move and shoot;
2 - Halberdiers activate, move through and ahead of Rifles. Halberdiers take charges fairly well (except cavalry), especially if you've added Surefoot from Damiano. 3 -Riflemen can then (move and) shoot again - and with Damiano can even unjam the Halberdiers against suitable targets.
Tactician from Stannis does mean that the Riflemen, in combination with other Steelheads, don't always work like other RNG10 models. But it takes some work/positioning, and a willingness to not just charge the Halberdiers in (although sometimes that is the better play).
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