Growl
Junior Strategist
Posts: 496
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Post by Growl on Jun 11, 2018 2:29:43 GMT
Zaku I’ve been playing a lot of Satyxis lately and have actually been going in he opposite direction of you, looking to really minimize my jack load out in order to maximize my Satyxis. Of course I almost always play with a 2 list set, so if my opponent has a list with significant anti infantry tech, I will most likely drop my other list. I think Stalkers are really good with Skarre, but again, the way I run my list, it’s all about bodies and scenario and if I can make it, an assassination.
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Post by darkshroud on Jun 11, 2018 3:14:47 GMT
Zaku I’ve been playing a lot of Satyxis lately and have actually been going in he opposite direction of you, looking to really minimize my jack load out in order to maximize my Satyxis. Of course I almost always play with a 2 list set, so if my opponent has a list with significant anti infantry tech, I will most likely drop my other list. I think Stalkers are really good with Skarre, but again, the way I run my list, it’s all about bodies and scenario and if I can make it, an assassination. i do the same thing with my satyxis lists. usually running a unit of each. plus maxing out the gunners plus all the solos. leaving 48 for jacks is still enough to use that i could get something with staying power. even though "staying power" isnt really cryx's thing
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Cyel
Junior Strategist
Posts: 685
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Post by Cyel on Jun 11, 2018 4:56:39 GMT
Yeah! Those mk2 Wold War Bardigus players and mk3 Karchev players still can't hide their glee at the thought of how much time and money they saved buying all those Woldwatchers and Mad Dogs. They should have cashed out earlier And this new player who asks for advice sure will do that. Fortunately new players are known for excellently predicting trends in complex games they have just started playing and reacting accordingly in just the right moment !
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jun 11, 2018 5:30:16 GMT
Zaku I’ve been playing a lot of Satyxis lately and have actually been going in he opposite direction of you, looking to really minimize my jack load out in order to maximize my Satyxis. Of course I almost always play with a 2 list set, so if my opponent has a list with significant anti infantry tech, I will most likely drop my other list. I think Stalkers are really good with Skarre, but again, the way I run my list, it’s all about bodies and scenario and if I can make it, an assassination. That seems to be a valid tactic as well. We are mainly sticking to core rulebook scenarios, slowly mixing in the Steamroller and other missions. Right now the core rulebook missions are just enough to keep us thinking about playing the scenario, while learning our new armies. This was the 75 point Skarre1 list I have been shooting for, and just finished buying everything for early last month. War Room Army Cryx - Skarre1 75 pt. Theme: Scourge of the Broken Coast 3 / 3 Free Cards 75 / 75 Army Pirate Queen Skarre - WJ: +28 - Reaper - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13) - Seether - PC: 13 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2) Axiara Wraithblade - PC: 0 Satyxis Raider Captain - PC: 0 Severa Blacktide - PC: 0 Satyxis Blood Witches - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13 - Satyxis Blood Hag - PC: 4 Satyxis Gunslingers - Leader & 2 Grunts: 7 Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 4 Satyxis Raiders - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16 - Satyxis Raider Sea Witch - PC: 4
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 11, 2018 6:39:30 GMT
Guys, stop feeding the troll, he'll keep coming back, like a stray puppy (but way less cute) on topic: Zaku I would personally take Stalkers for the battle group. Since all of your infantry is hard to shoot, any stray shots will go towards your jacks, and at ARM 17 with only 28 boxes, even POW 10's can sometimes put a dent in them. Stalkers are real monsters under the feat and can be difficult to pin down in general, fitting the theme of your army. Putting in 4 Stalkers instead of the 39 points of jacks you have now, would even allow for an extra unit of Gunslingers (which are amazing) That being said, this is what you have and if just starting out I can understand not wanting to invest in a bunch of Stalkers and more infantry models. This list will work fine against melee armies, but will rely on your heavies to do heavy lifting if armour shows up, which may be rough. In general, not having a a free cast of Ritual Sacrifice and some sacrificial models is rough with Skarre 1, which is why many people play her in themes that allow the Skarlock and Scrap Thralls. This theme doesn't really have sacrificial models, so you will be using Ritual Sacrifice sparingly and will most likely cast Dark Guidance a lot while camping 2. Also consider adding a Satyxis Blood Priestess so you can heal after the feat, and if really needed, she can shank a friendly model to cast Ritual Sacrifice, although that will cost you 2 Satyxis for the spell.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jun 11, 2018 8:39:22 GMT
Guys, stop feeding the troll, he'll keep coming back, like a stray puppy (but way less cute) on topic: Zaku I would personally take Stalkers for the battle group. Since all of your infantry is hard to shoot, any stray shots will go towards your jacks, and at ARM 17 with only 28 boxes, even POW 10's can sometimes put a dent in them. Stalkers are real monsters under the feat and can be difficult to pin down in general, fitting the theme of your army. Putting in 4 Stalkers instead of the 39 points of jacks you have now, would even allow for an extra unit of Gunslingers (which are amazing) That being said, this is what you have and if just starting out I can understand not wanting to invest in a bunch of Stalkers and more infantry models. This list will work fine against melee armies, but will rely on your heavies to do heavy lifting if armour shows up, which may be rough. In general, not having a a free cast of Ritual Sacrifice and some sacrificial models is rough with Skarre 1, which is why many people play her in themes that allow the Skarlock and Scrap Thralls. This theme doesn't really have sacrificial models, so you will be using Ritual Sacrifice sparingly and will most likely cast Dark Guidance a lot while camping 2. Also consider adding a Satyxis Blood Priestess so you can heal after the feat, and if really needed, she can shank a friendly model to cast Ritual Sacrifice, although that will cost you 2 Satyxis for the spell. Interesting thought on going with 4 Stalkers over the Seethers and Reapers, i have noticed how Focused starved Skarre1 is, which was kind of why I went with the heavies I did. The Reaper doesn't need very much Focus to do it's job, hit a hit with the harpoon and drag it back. The Seethers get to charge for free, and under Skarre's feat, rarely need a 3rd Focus to wreck a heavy if it has even just a little damage on it. But oh boy are you right about our 'Jacks being fragile... Yikes, Sloan hit my Seether a few games ago and did 15 damage in a single shot with a boosted Weapon Master sniper shot... Ugh. It is interesting to see that you are having great success with your Gunslingers, they kind of feel like dead weight in my army, however my regular opponent plays Cygnar and runs the Gravediggers theme, so my girls are trying to hit DEF 17 Trenchers most of the time. I don't have a Blood Priestess yet, but will be getting one for when I start playing my Skarre2 list, since she has tons of upkeep spells.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 11, 2018 9:03:30 GMT
It is interesting to see that you are having great success with your Gunslingers, they kind of feel like dead weight in my army, however my regular opponent plays Cygnar and runs the Gravediggers theme, so my girls are trying to hit DEF 17 Trenchers most of the time. Fair enough. In that setup, Blood Witches are definitely the way to go
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Post by tiberius on Jun 11, 2018 12:05:48 GMT
The gunslingers work a lot better with an armor debuffer like asphyxious 1 or deneghra 1 where their pow 10's can really ding up some armor putting feedback damage into the caster. Skarre 1 doesn't do a lot for them to be honest. But they are great at infantry clearing as POW 10 is usually enough to kill any non-shield wall single wound infantry and they are accurate enough to hit most high defense models 50% of the time. So again, your list is going to be very matchup dependent. Someone said above, your list is great against melee builds and probably against warjack builds. Against armor or meat mountain you may struggle. That is where the list pairings come into play, no one list can cover all the bases typically.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jun 17, 2018 10:13:23 GMT
The gunslingers work a lot better with an armor debuffer like asphyxious 1 or deneghra 1 where their pow 10's can really ding up some armor putting feedback damage into the caster. Skarre 1 doesn't do a lot for them to be honest. But they are great at infantry clearing as POW 10 is usually enough to kill any non-shield wall single wound infantry and they are accurate enough to hit most high defense models 50% of the time. So again, your list is going to be very matchup dependent. Someone said above, your list is great against melee builds and probably against warjack builds. Against armor or meat mountain you may struggle. That is where the list pairings come into play, no one list can cover all the bases typically. Very great points, and excellent advice. I will be running my first 75 point games of Mk.III next weekend using Skarre2. Interested to see how that goes, since I often have found myself Feating with Skarre1 defensively to make my 'jacks able to weather the storm of Cygnar shooting on the way in and jam with high DEF and moderately high ARM Raiders... Or to just keep my key solos alive to contribute for another turn.
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mazog
Junior Strategist
Walking and talking
Posts: 748
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Post by mazog on Jun 17, 2018 17:41:24 GMT
TLDR: this game is like rock, paper, scissors, and if you use rock too much, your opponent will stop choosing scissors and you will start to lose more.
It sounds to me like your meta is shifting under you. I just read the whole thread today, and the models you are concerned about today are the models you raved about in the beginning, for the most part. I had a similar experience with Fennblades, when I started the game in mk II my meta was all about the light infantry, and I mulched them with my Fennblades. After a few months passed, I noticed they didn't seem to be nearly as effective, and only later did I realize that I had seen my first meta shift, where the light infantry subsided and heavy infantry and jacks came into style.
The moral of the story is that most models have things they want to see across the table and things they don't want to see. Your opponents will shift (and apparently have shifted) from the former to the latter if you beat them too much, and then you will have to shift with them.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jun 18, 2018 2:19:38 GMT
TLDR: this game is like rock, paper, scissors, and if you use rock too much, your opponent will stop choosing scissors and you will start to lose more. It sounds to me like your meta is shifting under you. I just read the whole thread today, and the models you are concerned about today are the models you raved about in the beginning, for the most part. I had a similar experience with Fennblades, when I started the game in mk II my meta was all about the light infantry, and I mulched them with my Fennblades. After a few months passed, I noticed they didn't seem to be nearly as effective, and only later did I realize that I had seen my first meta shift, where the light infantry subsided and heavy infantry and jacks came into style. The moral of the story is that most models have things they want to see across the table and things they don't want to see. Your opponents will shift (and apparently have shifted) from the former to the latter if you beat them too much, and then you will have to shift with them. Hah I am not sure if my little meta has shifted so much, as my opponent and I have learned more about our armies and how to play them. The Cygnar player generally shifts from Sloan to Caine1, and has begun trying out a double Defender battlegroup. The rest of his army seems to have stayed the same, since that is all he owns. After two games yesterday, I have become far more confident in the Seethers again, even though I DID lament that they are made of paper. Defensively feating, and running the Seether up onto the other side of a piece of cover my opponent's troops would have HAD to cross to get tobthe objective was amazing, and let the Seether Countercharge into a mass of Trenchers after enough moved out to make it worth it, and allowed him to engage one of the Defenders as well to stop it from shooting. The Gunslingers still feel pretty "meh" against Stealthed Trencher Commandos or DEF 20 Trenchers that are dug in and have Blur... but Severa... worth her weight in gold. Hopefully next weekend I will get a break from Trenchers and will be able to take on our Legion player. Finally figured out how to best use Axiara, and oh man... Stealthed Satyxis Raiders from Prowl, being immune to blast damage, has to be one of the most glorious things when they are sitting right on the other side of an objective, while Trenchers can do nothing but shake their fists at them.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 18, 2018 7:08:07 GMT
Zaku How did you trigger Prowl? I assume they didn't have Pathfinder to go hang out in a forest because you were also immune to blast damage. Also, note that Severa can shoot something like your own Seether in the back to drag all the trenchers around it and blow them up
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Post by comasinkhole on Jun 18, 2018 8:46:00 GMT
Zaku How did you trigger Prowl? I assume they didn't have Pathfinder to go hang out in a forest because you were also immune to blast damage. Also, note that Severa can shoot something like your own Seether in the back to drag all the trenchers around it and blow them up It has to be an enemy model to trigger vortex blast. Unfortunately.
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Post by Gamingdevil on Jun 18, 2018 9:03:14 GMT
Zaku How did you trigger Prowl? I assume they didn't have Pathfinder to go hang out in a forest because you were also immune to blast damage. Also, note that Severa can shoot something like your own Seether in the back to drag all the trenchers around it and blow them up It has to be an enemy model to trigger vortex blast. Unfortunately. Crap, you're right, think that changed from CID, my mistake.
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Zaku
Junior Strategist
Posts: 224
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Post by Zaku on Jun 18, 2018 21:23:18 GMT
Zaku How did you trigger Prowl? I assume they didn't have Pathfinder to go hang out in a forest because you were also immune to blast damage. Also, note that Severa can shoot something like your own Seether in the back to drag all the trenchers around it and blow them up I just ran them as far into a forest as they could. The template was placed length wise across my side, so a 14" run was more than enough to get them to where they need to be after Axiara gave them Prowl.
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