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Post by reddust82 on May 31, 2018 21:52:23 GMT
I see you asked about Magic Weapons earlier as your reasoning behind looking into Eyriss, however, I didn't see anybody talk about it. A Forge Seer is one of the best jack marshals in the game and is one way to get magic weapons on a jack that's in the AK theme. Aiyana and Holt are everybody's favorite merc unit for magic weapons and hit fixing. With those, you can keep Kell and still not worry so much about incorp. Just a few options. Thank you for this! And now for some follow up questions that come from pure ignorance. I don’t really have anything to compare it to, so can you explain further what makes the greyseer such a great jack martial? How would you build your list around this as I’ve recently learned that if I use Irusk’s warjack points then those jacks can’t be marshaled by someone else. So I was thinking Irusk takes a jugg and a Kodiak and the greyseer gets a destroyer. Irusk gives the destroyer fire for effect, the greyseer gives it magical weapons and throws an extra focus on the jugg to save Irusk a focus. I know this requires everyone to be pretty close but am I on the right track here or totally off base? Also, are there different opinions on the MoW kovnik? In both my games those two inches allowed me to get a charge off... but that’s in a very small game with limited support. Are kovniks always a MUST have for MoW? Or is it less straightforward than that? 4 or 8 points is so step to pay for 2” movement, though there’s no denying how handy that movement is...
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Post by hocestbellum on May 31, 2018 22:38:42 GMT
Okay, so jack marshalling in a nutshell: it's basically a very limited set of bonuses. The bonuses are pretty good, but it can be hard to utilise. 'Crush!', for example, gives an extra attack and +2 damage on all melee attacks. That's a good couple of focus' worth of bonus there (1 for extra attack, plus the extra damage of about half a boosted damage roll), but khador jacks have SPD4, and that bonus doesn't give you a way to charge. 'Hurry!' lets you charge, but doesn't let you buy more attacks when you are there, and so on.
So you get some cool stuff, but none of the flexibility of a focus point. Enter the Forge Seer; now, thanks to Empower, you can have the cool bonuses AND the focus. So you can Crush! and charge, or Hurry! and buy extra attacks. Other factions have Empower and Jack Marshals, but I think Khador is the only one with both on the same model. And on top of that, they give the marshalled jack magical weapons (something we desperately need) and Blessed (which we have literally no other way to get).
It's also a tough repairable wizard that hits really hard in melee. All for 4 points. They are certainly good.
As for your specific example, Destroyers are common choices because it's easier to keep the jack marshal safe, a 4" template of magical +2 damage is delicious, and you can use the focus to boost the attack or damage as needed. In your example Fire For Effect is already much better damage wise; it boosts everything. But it would still stack with Take Aim, so it's not totally mad, especially if you need magic weapons. But it also opens up the flexibility to put FFE on something else, like the Strike Tanker.
As for the Kovnik, he's not vital, but he is very useful. As you get to higher points you'll eventually start playing scenario games. In those situations it's very useful to be able to move Shocktroopers 6" without losing shield wall. Combined with the Advance Move from the theme, you can get into a position to contest zones without too much hassle. Without the Kovnik you may fall a bit short, depending on the caster. When the lines meet, getting the charge is very important. Generally speaking, 11" is about as good as a charge range gets (6" + 3 for charge + 2 from weapon), and the Kovnik lets your 'slow' troops charge that far.
Also, people forget he can Slam. At MAT8 that's a very handy option to knock things over.
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Post by sand20go on May 31, 2018 22:38:45 GMT
I see you asked about Magic Weapons earlier as your reasoning behind looking into Eyriss, however, I didn't see anybody talk about it. A Forge Seer is one of the best jack marshals in the game and is one way to get magic weapons on a jack that's in the AK theme. Aiyana and Holt are everybody's favorite merc unit for magic weapons and hit fixing. With those, you can keep Kell and still not worry so much about incorp. Just a few options. Thank you for this! And now for some follow up questions that come from pure ignorance. I don’t really have anything to compare it to, so can you explain further what makes the greyseer such a great jack martial? How would you build your list around this as I’ve recently learned that if I use Irusk’s warjack points then those jacks can’t be marshaled by someone else. So I was thinking Irusk takes a jugg and a Kodiak and the greyseer gets a destroyer. Irusk gives the destroyer fire for effect, the greyseer gives it magical weapons and throws an extra focus on the jugg to save Irusk a focus. I know this requires everyone to be pretty close but am I on the right track here or totally off base? Also, are there different opinions on the MoW kovnik? In both my games those two inches allowed me to get a charge off... but that’s in a very small game with limited support. Are kovniks always a MUST have for MoW? Or is it less straightforward than that? 4 or 8 points is so step to pay for 2” movement, though there’s no denying how handy that movement is... That works. Doesn't require things to be THAT close and is probably the best way to get focus spread around. I like Kovniks. It is a steep task but otherwise you WILL take the alpha. With the Kovnik threat ranges become less punishing (for instance, with him you outhreat both Trolls and Legion's heavy (without their support) and match Trolls with the (snow) stone giving +1 Speed. That said, Irusk2 can get away without it because your feat (-3 speed) really hurts that approach and the always on tough can save you from taking a hard alpha.
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